tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post711908608160213399..comments2024-03-29T11:13:00.338+00:00Comments on Ambush Predator: A Tale Of Two Civilisations..JuliaMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-80093572012545145282012-07-22T22:17:09.101+01:002012-07-22T22:17:09.101+01:00Anonymous said: "You don't read about sto...Anonymous said: "You don't read about stories like that as they don't show the Police in a bad light. Good news does not a good story make, especially when it involves the Police."<br /><br />We do quite often read stories like this one, in part because Police Forces (sorry, Services) have press offices that make sure some of these stories get the publicity they deserve.James Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-8280527996268542672012-07-22T20:23:01.701+01:002012-07-22T20:23:01.701+01:00Oh yes you are!
Not Noggin the Nog, Jaded, or Pens...Oh yes you are!<br />Not Noggin the Nog, Jaded, or PenseivatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-67233054798682068122012-07-22T16:12:12.773+01:002012-07-22T16:12:12.773+01:00Well I'm not letting him have the last word!Well I'm not letting him have the last word!Melvin T Mentalhttp://www.wlmht.nhs.uk/bm/broadmoor-hospital/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-63123460583180246422012-07-21T22:35:01.832+01:002012-07-21T22:35:01.832+01:00Jaded,
I accept your apology but I will not shut ...Jaded,<br /><br />I accept your apology but I will not shut up just because you or others are 'fed up' with me or because some of my opponents cannot keep a civil tongue in their heads.<br /><br />Pense (I assume it is you),<br /><br />I accept it in that the verdict has been given, Harwood gets a pass and there is nothing I can do about that. Not accepting it would lead to pitchforks and flaming torches in the streets.<br /><br />If you mean that I don't accept it because I speak against it, because it is plainly wrong in my eyes, then you are correct, and I shall continue to speak against it.Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-45325287168649075402012-07-21T21:40:06.379+01:002012-07-21T21:40:06.379+01:00Nog you clearly DON'T accept the verdict do y...Nog you clearly DON'T accept the verdict do you do why say so?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-67849066568518868442012-07-21T21:39:24.278+01:002012-07-21T21:39:24.278+01:00NGN-you have been on many blogs as well as this on...NGN-you have been on many blogs as well as this one regarding this subject.I'm not the only one getting a bit fed up as you have been getting stronger abuse than "idiot" on most of them.Anyway i'm sorry as the target of my grumpiness was Melvin.We have had many run-ins over the years regarding policing.<br />At the end of day I have my opinion,you have yours and never the twain shall meet.<br />Jaded.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-74347968395673978672012-07-21T21:21:17.771+01:002012-07-21T21:21:17.771+01:00Pense,
I accept the verdict, mostly because there...Pense,<br /><br />I accept the verdict, mostly because there is nothing I can do about it.<br /><br />That wil not prevent me from voicing my opinion that Harwood is a criminal that got preferential treatment on more than one occasion because he is a PC.<br /><br />It used to be that the police were disliked by only the criminal element of society, but more incidents like this will only serve to increase an already heightened sense of dissatisfaction amongst the public with the police in general and the process of law in particular. When a man is sent to his grave as a direct result of being pushed to the ground and no one is punished for it, <br />some people are likely to conclude that the reason for that is because the man who did the pushing was a policeman.Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-30657013911661463632012-07-21T20:28:04.544+01:002012-07-21T20:28:04.544+01:00ooooooooo....don't squish one. That could prov...ooooooooo....don't squish one. That could provoke a full scale Banzai charge, Nog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-43558242126841005692012-07-21T20:23:28.401+01:002012-07-21T20:23:28.401+01:00Noggy old fruit. A Coroners court, although extre...Noggy old fruit. A Coroners court, although extremely important in the judicial process does not take precedence over a criminal trial. The criminal trial found Harwood not guilty. That's NOT GUILTY. I know you think he is, but a jury said you're wrong. Now, as mentioned earlier, how many times do you want this man tried before you get the result you want? You either accept the judicial system, whether you agree with the verdict or not, or you continue wittering on until any sane person loses patience and can't be bothered to reply.<br />PenseivatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-22621378547569182252012-07-21T19:13:53.713+01:002012-07-21T19:13:53.713+01:00Jaded,
I'm an idiot because I disagree with y...Jaded,<br /><br />I'm an idiot because I disagree with you?<br /><br />See how entrenched your superiority complex is?Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-83897313307288311612012-07-21T19:04:40.712+01:002012-07-21T19:04:40.712+01:00Google translate....tuning it in...oh yes....blah ...Google translate....tuning it in...oh yes....blah blah...anti-police as usual....complimenting a fellow idiot....patronising tone...repeating yourself........ ....nothing to add to the debate...using big words no normal person would ever use to make yourself feel superior....does that just about cover it Melvin?<br /><br />I apologise for disagreeing with you,please don't flounce off this blog again.<br />JadedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-86727598105474276142012-07-21T17:26:30.193+01:002012-07-21T17:26:30.193+01:00@ Noggin
I commend your patience. You are a pleas...@ Noggin<br /><br />I commend your patience. You are a pleasant and bright chap but permit me to introduce you to the vacuous plod cranium and its simple workings. The exchange of logical thoughts (a process we take for granted) is mimicked in the main constable cavity. Here, a small looped tape of stock phrases is played until such time as the listener feels obliged to test the system for intelligent functionality. <br /><br />The three-neuron plod medulla is one of those natural oddities which is initially encountered with amusement and thereafter with a modicum of scorn.A salt and batterednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-74491100264539186222012-07-21T16:12:14.799+01:002012-07-21T16:12:14.799+01:00The Coroner's Court (and jury) found he was di...The Coroner's Court (and jury) found he was directly responsible for the unlawful killing of Tomlinson. <br /><br />And yet he is to receive NO punishment whatsoever for killing a man. <br /><br />As ridiculous a situation as defending him.Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-50839474957229984602012-07-21T15:51:16.737+01:002012-07-21T15:51:16.737+01:00Noggin,
Harwood faced being held accountable in a ...Noggin,<br />Harwood faced being held accountable in a court of law. He was tried for the offence of manslaughter. The court of law, via the jury, said he was not responsible for Ian Tomlinson's death. How many more trials of Harwood would you like before the correct, i.e. the one you particularly want, is reached?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-58504500424987447532012-07-21T14:41:37.975+01:002012-07-21T14:41:37.975+01:00To the above,
Nobody has suggested anything of th...To the above,<br /><br />Nobody has suggested anything of the kind. Your hyperbole is unnecessary.<br /><br />I think most people would be satisfied with Harwood being held accountable for killing a man in a court of law.<br /><br />Btw stop it with this 'working tirelessly for the community' nonsense. You do your job in exchange for money, same as everyone else. The difference arises in that were I to carry out my job in such a shoddy fashion that a person died as a result, feet would not touch and quite rightly so.Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-71557046013014710522012-07-21T12:25:43.616+01:002012-07-21T12:25:43.616+01:00You've got me. Harwood is a killer and doesn&...You've got me. Harwood is a killer and doesn't deserve to live. As a result of this, he will be taken from his house and, in front of his family, blindfolded, tied to a stake and shot by a firing squad. This squad to comprise Julia M, Noggy, Woman on a Raft (once she's got her land legs back - can't have her swaying all over the place), Melv and Anon. That should sort it all out and stop this kind of thing. And, if it's successful, we can go after every other Police officer who has issued a parking ticket, didn't call some obnoxious cretin, 'Sir' or made a pithy reply to "You know I pay your wages." Then the sun will come out, the clouds will vibrate to "Land of Hope and Glory" and everyone can skip across the verdant, green, meadows. Oh joy!<br /><br />WOAR (that's using your initials, not a comment on your, no doubt delightful, appearance), How do you know that Harwood was cut a special deal because he was a Police officer? Don't tell me you're the one who planted the bugs in Scotland Yard? You little tinker you (can I call someone 'tinker'?). I had to smile at your "That's the whole point with Police and priests, and doctors and social workers:...." What do you suggest happens now? perhaps we all go round fire-bombing churches with priests in, though leave out those with vicars, Imams, Kohanim and Rabbis? In your list you forgot, central and local politicians, council workers, medical centre staff, hospital staff, people who work in HR, Border Agency and immigration Staff, bank officials and staff, librarians and, possibly, members of Mumsnet. The list is endless (until you get to the end of course). <br />Mistakes were made in Harwood's re-employment with the Met and this has been admitted. As mentioned elsewhere, the Police are not perfect and mistakes are made. However, to suggest that because of incidents like this, all Police are thuggish, corrupt cretins who shouldn't be allowed out during the hours when decent people are about, is an insult to all those who work tirelessly for the benefit of the community, attend fatal road accidents, enter buildings on fire and jump into rivers to save people - please don't bring up the story of the CSOs who watched while someone drowned because that was yet another media mis-story (perhaps a later time). My local paper recently had a (very brief) story about a female Police officer, who has a fear of heights, climbing a gantry, pending the arrival of Fire and Rescure, to talk down a young man who was depressed and threatening to kill himself. She succeeded and the man was taken off to safety. The officer carried on the rest of her shift before being interviewed by a senior officer. Instead of being thanked, she was given a bollocking because she had not done a risk assessment first and as she was a probationer, her continuance as a Police officer was in doubt. You don't read about stories like that as they don't show the Police in a bad light. Good news does not a good story make, especially when it involves the Police.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-81861302384969149882012-07-21T09:30:47.344+01:002012-07-21T09:30:47.344+01:00I crossly add that if I (total criminal acivity to...I crossly add that if I (total criminal acivity to date = parking ticket), heading towards grannydom, offer to do voluntary play leading at the local creche, I will have to be screened, interviewed, have references taken and a full CRB enhanced check. <br /><br />However, it appears that if you are a police constable instead of say, a school caretaker, then a list of allegations and a suspicious resignation to prevent further disciplinary action will see you on to your next job.<br /><br />Since we are coming up to the 10th memorial of the Soham murders I make no apology for what I have said previously: this was a violent young man who was quite likely to kill somebody although the betting would have been on girlfriend rather than the children of neighbours.<br /><br />The one thing which might have changed that was if he had been prosecuted and imprisoned when the evidence existed - as it did if the lazy CPS could have been bothered to pull it together instead of blaming the police.<br /><br />Just so here. Never mind disciplinary action; his behaviour was not covered by his badge and should have been dealt with by the criminal law previously.<br /><br />The general argument which Noggin makes is correct: Harwood was cut a special deal because he was a police officer. It's no different to the cardinals running about cutting special deals for their criminal priests and then whinging "oh, people are always priests".<br /><br />No they are not. That's the whole point with police and priests and doctors and social workers; they occupy places which give them privileged access to people.<br /><br />It is doubly important that when this privilege is abused it must be punished, not rewarded - as it has been here.Woman on a Rafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08897415591130901416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-73791471589805235012012-07-21T07:50:21.382+01:002012-07-21T07:50:21.382+01:00Pity a modest punnet of raspberries involves frequ...Pity a modest punnet of raspberries involves frequent vulgar noises and showers of spittle, JuliaM.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-37890512803966150512012-07-21T06:30:40.759+01:002012-07-21T06:30:40.759+01:00"If Harwood illegally accessed the PNC, does ...<i>"If Harwood illegally accessed the PNC, does this make him a killer?"</i><br /><br />No. But it should have made him an ex-cop, as it has so many others. He seems to have led something of a charmed life. <br /><br />I wonder why?JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-32441997105947434582012-07-21T06:26:07.292+01:002012-07-21T06:26:07.292+01:00"I should add - the commenters at Gadget'...<i>"I should add - the commenters at Gadget's are right about one thing - it was a jury decision in both cases - and I can't think of a better way of doing it."</i> <br /><br />Maybe not. <br /><br /><i>"I'm sure Gadget really would not like to serve alongside this odious man Harwood.in the real world."</i> <br /><br />Then why defend him?<br /><br /><i>"Harwood may not be the best example of a Police officer but should he be found guilty of manslaughter because he's not a nice man?"</i> <br /><br />No. He should be found guilty because a coroner's jury found Tomlinson was unlawfully killed. Who else did it? A one-armed man?<br /><br /><i>"It is the nature, not the number of complaints against an officer which counts."</i> <br /><br />Spot on! And Harwood's show a worrying tendency to get rough with those smaller and weaker than him. <br /><br />That should be a hellishly large red flag right there.JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-76341724103383079712012-07-21T00:40:21.246+01:002012-07-21T00:40:21.246+01:00I wonder if Ian Tomlinson did? Why hasn't that...<i>I wonder if Ian Tomlinson did? Why hasn't that come out?</i><br /><br />Because he's not on trial, what with being unlawfully killed and hence dead.Woman on a Rafthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08897415591130901416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-37991088719583234532012-07-20T23:52:18.382+01:002012-07-20T23:52:18.382+01:00Pense,
You are wrong, the Coroner DID directly im...Pense,<br /><br />You are wrong, the Coroner DID directly implicate Harwood in the death of this man and suggested the CPS should reopen the case. The second pathologist not only openly dismissed the findings of the first post mortem, along with the the abilities of the first pathologist, he plainly states that the internal injuries were caused by the fall, a fall which would not have happened without the push.<br /><br />That Harwood is a killer is indisputable, he killed someone. The question is whether he acted legally.<br /><br />Harwood was not found not guilty of the road rage thing because he resigned days before the disciplinary hearing to avoid investigation and any punishment due. Not really the actions of an innocent man. The police usually only pay out when they know they will lose in court.<br /><br />The other things I have highlighted about him do not make him a killer, and I never said they did. What they do suggest is that there is a difference in the way police and civilians can behave before they are prosecuted.<br /><br />He will not be dismissed for being not guilty of manslaughter. He will be dismissed for using excessive and unnecessary force which led to a death. If he is innocent of all wrong doing, he will not be disciplined.<br /><br />I am many things, some of them not good, but naive is not one of them. You are correct in the assertion that I am developing a dislike of the police though, mostly because of cases like this.Noggin the Nognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-58987995289389087762012-07-20T23:30:08.243+01:002012-07-20T23:30:08.243+01:00Noggy mate, You've read 'parts' of the...Noggy mate, You've read 'parts' of the Coroners report including the conclusion. The verdict of unlawful killing did not directly implicate Simon Harwood - it could well have implicated the corner shop which sold him the cheap vodka for the past 5 years, or the crap A&E staff who failed to diagnose his internal organ problems, or his money-grabbing family who ignored him until they saw him as a posthumous cash-cow. Being present doesn't only reflect what you may or may not see, it would also reflect the tension in the air, the fear, the desperation and the exhaustion - don't knock that particular element until you've experienced it. Being a Police officer does not give carte blanche permission to hit and push anyone they want, It does give them permission to use force in certain circumstances and unless you were able to see the period, say for 10 minutes, prior to when Tomlinson was hit and pushed, you can't comment on whether that use of force was unlawful. All you saw was the period of the strike and push. Cameras do lie and even film can give an incorrect impression if only an edited version was shown. If Harwood illegally accessed the PNC, does this make him a killer? If he took part in a road rage incident (found not guilty) would this make him a killer? The fact the Police paid compensation is that they do what all Police forces do, they take the less costly way out - they could have fought the allegation through the courts and won their case but it would have cost 5 times as much, so they tend to offer a sum of money with the proviso the complainant goes away and stops bothering them - they usually do as that was what they were after all the time. The allegation against Harwood's brutality was uncorroborated so no further action was taken, but does such an allegation make him a killer? That his actions fell short of what can be expected from a Police officer may have some merit but does that make him a killer? As far as the alleged indifference to his actions by senior officers is concerned, shows that you have very little knowledge of the Police. Each Force has a department - it used to be called Complaints and Discipline, but is now called something like Professional Standards Department - whose sole function is to delve deeply into allegations of misconduct, or worse, by Police officers. They tend to use the Napoleonic Law rule in that the officer is guilty unless he/she can prove their innocence. The comments by the silly ACC Debbie woman earlier today prove that (why wasn't she wearing her hat, by the way?). The IPCC will hound Harwood through what remains of his Police service and probably through whatever he does after that. Depending on their decision, he will no doubt be dismissed the Police and lose any pension rights. All for being found not guilty of manslaughter. He may not be a nice man, he may not have been a good Police officer, but does this make him a killer? We can go round and round in circles, old fruit, but it seems that no matter what we say, we will disagree. You, perhaps, because you have some latent dislike of Police or a naive sense of what justice means. We will contine to differ. Nothing I say will make you change your mind and nothing you say will make me change mine. If I were you, I would spend my time learning some new scripts and get back on the telly - I've been telling my Grandchildren about you and showing them some of your exploits - Youtube again, I'm afraid.<br />PenseivatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-70045403694213651412012-07-20T23:21:46.500+01:002012-07-20T23:21:46.500+01:00Fuck 'im. He wasn't exactly working on a c...Fuck 'im. He wasn't exactly working on a cure for cancer, was he?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-39838282773762331502012-07-20T23:17:02.888+01:002012-07-20T23:17:02.888+01:00Anonymous, I have heard of another case where a ma...Anonymous, I have heard of another case where a man struck another man, who fell to the ground, hit his head, and died. The assailant was acquitted of manslaughter by the jury, quite wrongly in my view. It's as if neither the judge (in directing the jury) nor the jury itself can be bothered to punish someone for what is now accepted as normal behaviour. It's disgusting.James Knoreply@blogger.com