tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post616411231149340361..comments2024-03-28T18:32:00.146+00:00Comments on Ambush Predator: "Life is like a box of chocolates .44 Magnum..."JuliaMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-91514482127051722152009-09-20T23:26:05.458+01:002009-09-20T23:26:05.458+01:00"When he loaded the offending round into the ..."When he loaded the offending round into the weapon, did he not notice the lump of lead at the pointy end?"<br /><br />It was presumably meant to be a training round, which would also probably have 'a lump of lead at the pointy end'; however, it should also have had clear indications that it _was_ a training round and not live.<br /><br />But all of that would have been irrelevant if the man hadn't broken rule number one of firearms handling: you never, ever point a gun at anyone or anything you're not willing to destroy. Particularly when you 'know' it's safe, because that's when you're most likely to get overconfident and shoot something by accident.<br /><br />As someone said above, there are so many things wrong with this whole incident... it would be a comedy if someone hadn't been seriously injured; when I used to shoot in the UK anyone who behaved the way this man did would have instantly been thrown out of the gun club, yet the people who used to shoot at that club are now not allowed to own guns whereas this clown is allowed to carry live ammunition around in a sweet tin and break every safety rule in the business.<br /><br />I guess this just goes to show that police gun-handling has sunk to third-world levels along with most of the rest of the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-10670559004386666902009-09-20T11:09:26.721+01:002009-09-20T11:09:26.721+01:00"It really is unbelievable the vast number of...<i>"It really is unbelievable the vast number of stupid things this "trained" induhvidual was able to do wrong!"</i> <br /><br />'In<b>duh</b>vidual'. I like it! ;)<br /><br /><i>"Hah! The anti-spam was 'virago', what price artificial intelligence eh?"</i> <br /><br />Heh! That thing's getting smarter. Hope Skynet isn't involved...<br /><br /><i>"When he loaded the offending round into the weapon, did he not notice the lump of lead at the pointy end? "</i> <br /><br />I guess we should be thankful (or not?) that he inserted it the right way round!JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-62464644760862090512009-09-19T19:59:15.658+01:002009-09-19T19:59:15.658+01:00When he loaded the offending round into the weapon...When he loaded the offending round into the weapon, did he not notice the lump of lead at the pointy end? FFS.The Filthy Engineerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07584236558282159183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-47386092913864917952009-09-19T16:49:10.274+01:002009-09-19T16:49:10.274+01:00Hah! The anti-spam was 'virago', what pri...Hah! The anti-spam was 'virago', what price artificial intelligence eh?Mac the Knifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01981281686243507802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-8909748732686669192009-09-19T16:47:18.030+01:002009-09-19T16:47:18.030+01:00"The fact that he's about as well qualifi..."The fact that he's about as well qualified to handle firearms as my cat..."<br /><br />Before I even <i>considered</i> issuing sidearms to my cats I put them through an intensive course...Mac the Knifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01981281686243507802noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-18204096528317602302009-09-19T14:25:43.422+01:002009-09-19T14:25:43.422+01:00It really is unbelievable the vast number of stupi...It really is unbelievable the vast number of stupid things this "trained" induhvidual was able to do wrong! Frankly there are too many Police Officers who are unfit to be allowed out with a water pistol. The fact that he FAILED the course should have been enough to have him kept well away from firearms and the excuse given by Thames Valley Police is simply beyond parody. As for keeping rounds in tupperware and sweet tins which implies that the rounds are kept loose is simply unbelieveable. Who is in charge of the firearms team and training? Blind Pugh?<br />TTFN MJN.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-37909728591448281742009-09-19T14:11:13.023+01:002009-09-19T14:11:13.023+01:00"And then there's this incident..." ...<i>"And then there's this incident..."</i> <br /><br />Oh, indeed! I remember that. I used to watch the show. <br /><br />And of course, there's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death" rel="nofollow">Brandon Lee</a>. <br /><br /><i>"And since they're generally different by look and/or feel how come PC Mickelthwaite failed to spot that he hadn't picked up a dud as he'd wanted?"</i> <br /><br />I think the bullets he wanted weren't the <i>only</i> 'dud' in the classroom...JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-56237796076746593502009-09-19T13:45:09.560+01:002009-09-19T13:45:09.560+01:00AngryExile: I've seen a blank .303 turn a can ...AngryExile: I've seen a blank .303 turn a can of compo ration baked beans into a special effects shot from a Hammer Films movie. We were advancing during a fire-and-manoeuvre drill one time when I saw my oppo stumble and stick his muzzle in the mud. He had a plug of dirt up the spout which could have been bad news out to several metres. He cleared it into neutral ground on my command, but someone could have been hurt had I not been on the ball. There is nothing cool about losing an eye.David Gilliesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-34103126917088685072009-09-19T13:05:50.568+01:002009-09-19T13:05:50.568+01:00Chalcedon, not that you should fuck around with bl...Chalcedon, not that you should fuck around with blank rounds either. I've personally seen a blank .303 round blow a hole in a sandbag as part of a safety demo when I was a cadet. And then there's <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon-Erik_Hexum#Death" rel="nofollow">this incident</a>, which incidentally also involved a .44 Magnum. That was something that bothered me hugely about this story - if the copper thought he'd loaded a blank what the fuck did he think he was playing waving the thing around and pulling the trigger? Can he possibly have been daft enough not to realise that blanks are dangerous too and never told that they have caused deaths? Or has the Daily Fail got the reporting wrong and we're actually talking about some form of drill round rather than blanks? I suspect the second, but that still leaves some what the fucks. What the fuck was a live round doing among (presumably) inert rounds? What the fuck were they doing keeping any of it in a fucking choccie tin? And since they're generally different by look and/or feel how come PC Mickelthwaite failed to spot that he hadn't picked up a dud as he'd wanted? And finally - again - what the fuck did the clown think he was doing waving the gun around? As has been said already you should never ever point a gun anywhere other than a safe direction unless you're actually likely to shoot something - it's a cardinal fucking rule even if it's unloaded and even if you're certain in your own mind that it's in a safe state. This uninformed uniform has demonstrated one reason why.<br /><br />On a side issue I note that the Daily Fail isn't saying that the victim was blown across the room any more. They hired someone with a physics O level recently?Angry Exilehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02491082312193274360noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-83060991163992879122009-09-19T11:33:34.846+01:002009-09-19T11:33:34.846+01:00So the dum dum wasn't fired then?So the dum dum wasn't fired then?Dr Melvin T Graynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-87687612893696944012009-09-19T11:32:21.611+01:002009-09-19T11:32:21.611+01:00Blank ammo looks quite different from a live round...Blank ammo looks quite different from a live round. The presence of a bullet in a live round tends to be a bit of a giveaway.Dr Evilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00176521760477086914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-41114713186492362582009-09-19T11:08:38.260+01:002009-09-19T11:08:38.260+01:00"So when the fuzz, who amongst British civili...<i>"So when the fuzz, who amongst British civilians are uniquely allowed to wave a roscoe around, negligently perforate some poor bastard, I don't give them a free pass on account of how dreadfully trying it must be to keep the peace."</i> <br /><br />No, indeed. Particularly when, in this instance, it wasn't exactly 'heat of the moment, spilit-second decision time'. <br /><br />Which is why the panic and obfuscation, lies and PR-blitz over De Menezes has, I fear, irreprably damaged the police armed response as a result. <br /><br />I don't blame the guys that pulled the trigger - I think they had real cause to believe he was a bomber, or at least, no cause to suspect he <i>wasn't</i> as described by the spotters. And running onto a Tube you think might blow up can't be easy...<br /><br />But the lies afterwards, and the dissembling and responsibiliy-waiving of the senior met in charge? <br /><br /><i>That</i> they should have swung for.JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-13294207602699910582009-09-19T10:58:54.593+01:002009-09-19T10:58:54.593+01:00Yep, the cops aren't exactly covering themselv...Yep, the cops aren't exactly covering themselves in glory in this particular instance. Sometimes, you just gotta shoot someone (like the lawyer that went bonkers with a shotgun - I'm surprised at how long it took for an ops guy to drop the hammer.)<br /><br />I'm not a major fan of the polis as it is (UK, anyway, round my gaff, they're diamonds). I mean, I'm happy that I get my bins emptied Monday and Thursday, but it's not like I put my bin-men on a pedestal. If they accidentally run over my neighbour's kid while trying to complete their round on time, I'm not going to say, "well, they do a dirty job under difficult circumstances, so when they crushed Miguelito's head it was an accident. These things happen." And as far as I know, my bin-men don't have a pick'n'mix assortment of ammo and a hand cannon and the common sense of Benny from <i>Crossroads</i> with a cap-gun. So when the fuzz, who amongst British civilians are uniquely allowed to wave a roscoe around, negligently perforate some poor bastard, I don't give them a free pass on account of how dreadfully trying it must be to keep the peace.David Gilliesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-36370393166543210682009-09-19T10:32:57.964+01:002009-09-19T10:32:57.964+01:00"An agent of the State ruined this man's ...<i>"An agent of the State ruined this man's life through negligence. The victim should be extravagantly compensated, and the officer involved prosecuted to the full extent of the law, his career ended, his liberty curtailed, his future sternly circumscribed."</i> <br /><br />I'd hope they would be. And whoever oversaw him too.<br /><br />But then I think back on Jean Charles De Menezes, and I remember how none of the chiefs got punished for the panic in the control room, and one - the useless woman 'in charge' was even <i>promoted</i>...<br /><br />And the daft thing is, this will just feed the usual anti-police crowd who whine when a criminal <i>posing an actual threat</i> gets shot, usually by claiming the police should have 'shot to wound' or even, in one instance 'shot the gun out of his hand'..!<br /><br />It's bad news all around.JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-49952222735543339052009-09-19T10:28:43.764+01:002009-09-19T10:28:43.764+01:00"There are so many things wrong with this sto...<i>"There are so many things wrong with this story that it has me rubbing my eyes in disbelief. "</i> <br /><br />Yup, that's what I thought when I was reading it last night. It's like there's a big book of 'Do's and Don'ts of Firearms Handling' and this clown went down the list, crossing out all the 'Do's' and ticking all the 'Don'ts'...<br /><br /><i>"The victim cheated death by a whisker. He hasn't been back to work? No surprise."</i> <br /><br />When the incident was first reported, and they said a 'handgun', I expected it to be a normal calibre. Something they often carry. <br /><br />When they said the next day it was a .44 Magnum and he was 'gravely ill', I thought it was merely PR-speak for 'We haven't got around to switching the life support off just yet'.<br /><br />He really won the Lottery there, poor man. He ought to be set up for life - in the States, he <i>would</i> be.JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-65004304695853996022009-09-19T10:17:35.717+01:002009-09-19T10:17:35.717+01:00As someone who has an intimate and long-standing a...As someone who has an intimate and long-standing acquaintance with firearms and firearms safety discipline, I can only say that the idea of having a tin full of mixed ammunition on a live firing range is so thoroughly alien as to present a glimpse into an alternate universe. There are so many things wrong with this story that it has me rubbing my eyes in disbelief. I don't doubt that these things happened, merely that they <i>could</i> have happened. That a firearm should not be pointed at me is so ingrained in my consciousness that I almost got in a fist fight when someone pointed aimed a water pistol at me in a pub. It looked square and black and pistol-like and my immediate reaction was to hit the deck. I was not amused. If I'm going to get killed by gunfire, I'd appreciate it if it were at least deliberate.<br /><br />At any halfway-serious gun club or military range I have been on, it is no exaggeration to say that ammunition discipline is carried out with roughly the same attention to detail as in the viewing room of an Antwerp diamond merchant. You enter with thirty rounds, you shoot eleven, you walk out with 19 and eleven cases or questions will be asked. You do not, ever, EVER, allow a gun in your possession to move from the ±45° arc immediately to your front while it is not in a demonstrably unloaded condition. You do not accept a firearm from someone else without immediately checking it is in an unloaded (or at the least, safe) condition. Any weapon upon which your gaze has not been continuous is assumed to be loaded, in full battery, and unsafe. Pointing a weapon at an individual might well draw counterfire (after nearly getting gut-shot under much the same scenario as this debacle, a buddy of mine solemnly informed new recruits that if they turned to face him with the weapon in their hand, he would kill them. He had a Taurus PT92 in Condition One in a shoulder holster to back this up. I have seen him go to Condition Zero and put a double tap centre mass in a 20m target in under 0.8s).<br /><br />And a .44! Jesus! There is not a single part of the human body that can be shot with a .44 Magnum round and not suffer permanent, life-altering trauma. A grazing wound on the skull can cause brain damage. In the body-T (across the eyes, down to the sternum) a hit is immediately and spectacularly fatal. A wound anywhere in the torso, unless in an operating theatre, prepped for surgery, with a trained surgical team that knows from gunshot wounds, will generally mean death. You can shoot someone in the leg with a .44 Magnum and they might not die (their recuperation will be long and arduous, but they might not die.) You can take a limb with a .44 (either promptly or from vascular damage.)<br /><br />The victim cheated death by a whisker. He hasn't been back to work? No surprise. The muzzle blast from a .44 can be debilitating at close range, never mind the round itself. Pieces fly off you if you are hit.<br /><br />An agent of the State ruined this man's life through negligence. The victim should be extravagantly compensated, and the officer involved prosecuted to the full extent of the law, his career ended, his liberty curtailed, his future sternly circumscribed.<br /><br />And I'll second sobers: a buddy of mine is ex-California sheriffs' department. He said the best way to recruit a SWAT team was to post a notice on the bulletin board asking for volunteers and make sure that anyone who signed up was never again allowed to wield anything more lethal than a stapler.David Gilliesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-90622081047181080362009-09-19T10:10:03.874+01:002009-09-19T10:10:03.874+01:00Ah, good to know, cheers!Ah, good to know, cheers!JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-52099073126093997492009-09-19T10:08:51.634+01:002009-09-19T10:08:51.634+01:00heard two clicks and then a loud bang.'
Two c...heard two clicks and then a loud bang.'<br /><br />Two clicks are the classic sound of a double action revolver, One is the hammer being cocked, the other is the release. You don't have to thumb the hammer back to cock it.Pavlov's Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162563403722211352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-62779870631014568372009-09-19T10:05:48.018+01:002009-09-19T10:05:48.018+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Pavlov's Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162563403722211352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-65457900902382558632009-09-19T10:05:43.594+01:002009-09-19T10:05:43.594+01:00"There's scope for one of those quirky we...<i>"There's scope for one of those quirky websites here: 1001 unusual uses for an old Quality Street tin."</i> <br /><br />Heh!<br /><br /><i>"How nobody has been sacked over this is beyond me."</i> <br /><br />I'd assume because they are waiting for the outcome of this trial, to avoid prejudicing any dismissal.<br /><br />I'd <i>hope</i> so, anyway...JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-69943732739449410642009-09-19T10:01:57.946+01:002009-09-19T10:01:57.946+01:00Considering that it is a criminal offence for a pr...Considering that it is a criminal offence for a private citizen to even possess live ammuniton without a firearms certificate (whether you have a gun or not) <br /><br />It does beggar belief that they have so much knocking about they put it in a chocolate tin for demo purposes. <br /><br />Armed Police on patrol and even Soldiers on training or guard duty have to account for every every round issued and returned and there is quite a hoo-ha if any goes 'missing'. <br /><br />How nobody has been sacked over this is beyond me.Pavlov's Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15162563403722211352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-35044696913265401922009-09-19T10:01:57.528+01:002009-09-19T10:01:57.528+01:00"'ve fired a .44 magnum at a gun range in...<i>"'ve fired a .44 magnum at a gun range in the states. It has a kick like a mule. I had to hold it 2 handed and really brace myself to control it."</i><br /><br />I've only fired one on computer, and I had to turn down the speakers... ;)<br /><br />The odd thing about the story is the statement from Mr Tilbury: <i>'I was getting up to move from my chair to move when I heard <b>two clicks</b> and then a loud bang.' </i> <br /><br />The two clicks aren't explained in this or any other report. <br /><br />If this is indeed an accurate recollection (and I don't blame him if not!), are they the sound of Micklethwaite thumbing back the hammer, or did the idiot pull the trigger <b>three times</b>?JuliaMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07844126589712842477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-73731099984593672502009-09-19T10:00:14.829+01:002009-09-19T10:00:14.829+01:00There's scope for one of those quirky websites...There's scope for one of those quirky websites here: <i>1001 unusual uses for an old Quality Street tin</i>.Edwin Greenwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03639193560457674072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-627081175329856970.post-68225147113852851342009-09-19T09:36:19.329+01:002009-09-19T09:36:19.329+01:00I've fired a .44 magnum at a gun range in the ...I've fired a .44 magnum at a gun range in the states. It has a kick like a mule. I had to hold it 2 handed and really brace myself to control it. God knows what the effect being shot by one at point blank range would be.<br /><br />I have to agree with one of the commenters in the article - the people who volunteer in the police force for firearms duty are probably the very people who should never be allowed near firearms. There should be a psychological assessment of all potential gun handlers. The last thing you want is people who 'like' guns. You need people who are 'afraid' of them. The sort of person who never puts a 'blank' into the gun without checking what it is first.sobersnoreply@blogger.com