Now, see the reality:
Campaigners condemned Ministry of Justice statistics which showed more than 1,000 offenders in England and Wales were given fines for carrying a knife in a single year.Yeah, that showed them…
Fines were dished out to one in 20 knife carriers sentenced in 2007.
The problem is that the government can dictate what it likes, but the court system is still staffed with the people who are either a soft touch, hopelessly naïve or happy to find excuses not to fine the maximum amount.
As a result, the government gets their headlines and it’s business as usual before the ink is dry…
Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman Chris Huhne accused the Government of "posturing" on knife crime penalties while an anti-crime charity described the punishments as a "slap in the face".And there always will be until we start to change the people in that system as well as the rules they work by:
Mr Huhne said: "There is a massive disparity between what the Government say and what the court system does.
A spokesman for the Ministry of Justice said: "Carrying a knife is a serious offence, and the Government is determined that those who are caught with a knife face the consequences.For how long…?
"Sentencing in individual cases is a matter for the courts - this is a cornerstone of our justice system - but the latest figures show more and more people are going to jail, and going to jail for longer.
"Less than 4 per cent of offenders receive a fine for possession of a knife or offensive weapon, compared with 20 per cent who are immediately sent to jail."
It´s worse than you think!
ReplyDeleteEvery case turns on its own facts, and courts are there to place offences on the scale and deal with them accordingly. The alternative would be a sentencing robot without discretion, and that would mean injustice.
ReplyDelete"It´s worse than you think!"
ReplyDelete*rolls eyes* Great. Just great...
"Every case turns on its own facts, and courts are there to place offences on the scale and deal with them accordingly. "
Well, yes, Bystander but then, as part of that system, you would say that, wouldn't you?
And as for the alternative meaning 'injustice', well, what on earth do you think we currently have?
Too glib by far, Julia. All offences vary enormously, be they property or violence related. To do justice a court has to look at all the circumstances, drawing on its experience and training, and taking legal guidance from the clerk.
ReplyDeleteIt is cheap to say that 'I would say that' because I am in the system. I have put 24 years unpaid work into the 'system' and along with my colleagues my primary motivation is justice. That needs careful and dispassionate consideration, not just yelling slogans.
"Too glib by far, Julia."
ReplyDeleteNot 'glib' at all. It's my deeply held opinion. Just as much as your leanings towards bleeding-heart compassion (evident in your blog) are yours.
"To do justice a court has to look at all the circumstances..."
In other words 'we know best, how dare those little people and jumped up politicians think they can have a say...'
"It is cheap to say that 'I would say that' because I am in the system. I have put 24 years unpaid work into the 'system'..."
Cheap it may be, but it is also true. Perhaps you've been at it too long, and become institutionalised.
Does any self-doubt about whether you are doing the right thing and making a better society ever cross your mind?
"Less than 4 per cent of offenders receive a fine for possession of a knife or offensive weapon, compared with 20 per cent who are immediately sent to jail."
ReplyDeleteUm.... and the other 76 per cent?
JUlia, do I understand it that you want everybody Plod randomly picks up for carrying a knife to suffer some very serious penalty? Simply for possession of a knife?
ReplyDeleteWould that include my friend, a middle aged engineer on duty, on his employer's private property (luckily; Plod didn't realise), who had his toolbox searched by random searching Plod, and when they found his Stanley knife tried to give him a caution?
Can I take it you are on the "ban everything" side of this then?
What Ian B said.
ReplyDelete"JUlia, do I understand it that you want everybody Plod randomly picks up for carrying a knife to suffer some very serious penalty?
ReplyDeleteSimply for possession of a knife?"
No, that would be a nonsense. That's the sort of thing that leads to ridiculous cases like this chap here, where there's no evidence whatsoever that he intended to do anything with it.
But I very much doubt that all of these cases here involve 'mini craft knives' forgotten in someone's pocket and seized on because the cops were disappointed not to find the drugs they were looking for either.
And in those other cases I'd expect them not to be fined £1...
"Can I take it you are on the "ban everything" side of this then?"
No, and I'd expect the law not to be drawn so carelessly that a middle-aged engineer would sweat over a knife used for his work, while your average layabout yob wouldn't turn a hair about the carving knife stuck down his trousers, because a sob-story and 'social services roeports' would be enough to earn him leniency from someone like Bystander.