Mr Fulcher also admitted during cross-examination that he had become "frustrated" that Halliwell had refused to answer any more questions, having finally spoken to a solicitor.
"I thought it was utterly ridiculous that someone would take me, 12 other people and a surveillance helicopter to the deposition site of two bodies and then seek to find some loophole or quirk in the law to get away from the fact he was a multiple murderer," he said.I...
I just...
Isn't that just what multiple murderers do? Shouldn't an experienced cop expect this?
I think the difference between some 'experienced cops' and other experienced cops is clear. He's clearly old school and let's not forget some other important factors: He was dealing with a piece of human filth who whether he was convicted of one or three murders wouldn't spend any more or less time in chokey. Other victim's bodies were recovered and their families don't blame him at all. They got 'closure'. The law is an ASS around this kind of thing.
ReplyDeleteHe got disciplined and his punishment fits the 'crime'.
"then seek to find some loophole or quirk in the law to get away from the fact he was a multiple murderer,"
ReplyDeleteExcept at the moment in time he was a INNOCENT man. An innocent man who was confessing to capital crimes, for sure, but innocent in the eyes of the law none the less. Not a 'murderer' nor 'human filth'. The Officer concerned obviously had already decided his guilt in his own mind and that led him to conduct an interview that didn't comply with PACE. (with the result that the court threw the charges out).
"He got disciplined and his punishment fits the 'crime'"-Anon
no need for speechmarks around the word 'crime'. It was a crime or even a CRIME. Next to committing perjury in court or tampering with evidence there is almost no more serious an offence a policeman can commit- because it might mean that a murderer could get off 'scot free' or an innocent man jailed for life. The officer's punishment must reflect that fact.
Many civilians will think it is utterly ridiculous for a senior policeman to...'allow someone to find a loophole or quirk in the law to get away from the fact he was a multiple murderer', Mr Fulcher.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that this copper had made his mind up about the guy at the time of arrest. He got sloppy and as a result, someone who should have gone to prison didn't.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that I don't think we as a society can afford is to allow the police to start deciding who they will and will apply the process of the law too. It's bad enough already with discretionary application of the law in many cases.
If I'm arrested, I expect to be advised of my rights as part of the caution they are required to provide at the time of arrest. I already have a fairly clear idea, but what if I was someone who didn't have an interest in this aspect of the legal system? Why should I not be told what I am required to do and what my rights are just because some copper has decided I don't qualify ?
Yo, Dwarf,
ReplyDeleteI speak as a retired Chief Inspector. Try doing anything with a suspect without messing up according to PACE and you'll be a better copper than I ever was.
PACE is a minefield designed to get felons off.
ANother rational comment from MTG - run out of tin foil again have you?
ReplyDeleteIt's a pity that the suspect wasn't accused of touching a teenager's thigh in 1972. There wouldn't have been any of this namby-pamby "rights" stuff with a real criminal like that.
ReplyDelete"ANother rational comment from MTG - run out of tin foil again have you?"
ReplyDeleteAluminium kitchen foil affords the best practical protection, anon. Folk with dexterity issues should opt for a Sainsbury's 10mx550mm roll which includes a free, one-piece hat pattern.
"The law is an ASS around this kind of thing."
ReplyDeleteAgreed, but it's the rules under which he works. I don't get to 'forget' the rules under which I work...
"Except at the moment in time he was a INNOCENT man."
Yes. THIS!
"One of the things that I don't think we as a society can afford is to allow the police to start deciding who they will and will apply the process of the law too."
I think it's too late. They are currently doing it.
XX Anonymouslemming said...
ReplyDeleteIf I'm arrested, I expect to be advised of my rights as part of the caution they are required to provide at the time of arrest.XX
You have no such right.
If I, as arrestiing officer do not wish to ask you any questions, you can shove your "right for a caution" up your arse.
Great comments on here from armchair experts which is what you wanted Julia.
ReplyDeleteFirstly he was not an innocent man.He is in prison convicted of another murder.
Secondly he lead the police officer to the body of another person he had killed,and then he back-tracked.
Thirdly,unlike you lot,the investigating officer had to look the vicims family in the face.Let's hope one of your loved ones isn't murdered.
Fourthly,breaching PACE is not a crime,just a procedural error.
Jaded
Jaded, 'guilty of another murder' ≠ 'guilty of this murder'...
ReplyDeleteAnd he's perfectly entitled to 'back track' as you put it. It's hardly unknown, as an 'experienced detective' ought to be aware.
Also, 'having to look the victim's family in the face' is not a carte-blanch reason to ignore PACE.
It disturbs me that I have to spell this out...
"Fourthly,breaching PACE is not a crime,just a procedural error."
ReplyDeleteThat has to be one of the scariest sentences you've ever posted. Worse even than selsey's "PACE is a minefield designed to get felons off."
The sad thing is I doubt you nor he can see why.
If you all want to defend murderers on here then knock yourselves out.You chattering classes have never had to deal with the victims and their families.
ReplyDeleteThis detective did not stitch up an innocent man.He made a procedural error after the murderer lead him to a dead body.
What I think is scary/disturbing is how ordinary people are happy that a murderer got off so you can criticise the police.
Jaded.
Giving rise to PACE was the systematic abuse of suspects by UK police, which placed the latter under intense media scrutiny during a rapid succession of high profile and failed cases.
ReplyDeleteWC Jaded's disgraceful comment permits a civilian perspective of PACE through police eyes....as a concession granted to suspects at their discretion.
XX A detective who did not follow arrest guidelines XX
ReplyDeleteGUIDELINES!!
Note that, NOT laws, GUIDELINES!
"You chattering classes have never had to deal with the victims and their families."-Jaded
ReplyDeleteYa think? You might be wrong there. Some of us have had to deal with the families, some of us have BEEN the families and me , myself, I've been the 'felon' across the interview desk on too many occasions.
But TBH I can understand why you can't get the point, don't think anyone I know on the force would.
Perhaps a sort of occupational disease? A kind of myopia perhaps? Or maybe just jadedness.
"happy that a murderer got off so you can criticise the police"
I'm happy that 9 murderers get off if it means one innocent man doesn't spend the rest of his life in prison for a crime he didn't commit. The test of a justice system isn't how many people get their just deserts but how many don't.
"GUIDELINES!!
ReplyDeleteNote that, NOT laws, GUIDELINES!"FT
"The IPCC found Mr Fulcher had breached the Police and Criminal Evidence *ACT*(Pace)" Britsh Bleeding Heart Corporation News (my italics)
Blocked Dwarf-your area of expertise seems to be on the other side of the interview desk-please elaborate....
ReplyDeleteI'm not happy about 9 murderers getting off,if you have been affected by this crime then you wouldn't think so either.
As for Melvin,he's just being Melvin.A self-proclaimed but unexplained policing expert.
Jaded
"Blocked Dwarf-your area of expertise seems to be on the other side of the interview desk-please elaborate..."
ReplyDeleteI have written before of my 'expertise'...I was a violent armed criminal who has been tried on various capital crimes ( My 'dining out' anecdote is how i pleaded guilty-and I was- to 3 counts of attempted murder, armed robbery etc and walked out of court with probation.
I have sat on the other side of the desk in both Germany and the UK...and as subjective as it is, my impression was that German coppers were far more interested in getting to the truth, to the facts, of a matter and even when I confessed they made every effort to treat me as innocent until the 3 Judges and 2 professional jurers had said otherwise.
FT may say different , and he will know, but German cops always used to call me 'Mr' and use the formal polite 'you' even though they knew I was guilty as sin because to say 'chummy' would have implied guilt.
Jaded, re MTG, something about lawnmowers wasn't it? Still, he knows his tin foil , just needs his meds.
ReplyDeleteBD-you must be so proud.Puts your posts into perspective being on the side of a murderer.
ReplyDeleteI am just a humble PC that's never committed attempted murder or an armed robbery.
Well done though for confessing on this blog as at least you have one side of the legal process,unlike other armchair experts on here.
Jaded
XX The Blocked Dwarf said...
ReplyDelete"GUIDELINES!!
Note that, NOT laws, GUIDELINES!"FT
"The IPCC found Mr Fulcher had breached the Police and Criminal Evidence *ACT*(Pace)" Britsh Bleeding Heart Corporation News (my italics)XX
It was always judges rules, with no real force behind them, and the fact that they are described as "Guidelines" infers that is still so. (As regards to cautioning).
XX FT may say different , and he will know, but German cops always used to call me 'Mr' and use the formal polite 'you' even though they knew I was guilty as sin because to say 'chummy' would have implied guilt. XX
"Herr xyz, deffinately. The use of "Du" is normally a piss take in such situations. "Du werdest mir Siezen, Kumpel!" Normaly it is always "Sie," on both sides.
"BD-you must be so proud.Puts your posts into perspective being on the side of a murderer."
ReplyDeleteProud? No, I just tell it like it is or rather was. Although as most of my crimes were committed on other criminals I have to admit that I am not, with a few exceptions that do literally keep me awake at night, wracked with guilt or shame about my past life.
Nor am I on the side of the murderer. I HOPE I am on the side of justice. For example,Personally I have no trouble with the Death part of the Death Sentence for murderers ...just the sentence bit.
"I am just a humble PC" I know and the fact you openly admit to being a PC does you credit although I would question your use of the word humble. There is nothing humble about the office of a PC, indeed I would think it a 'calling' on par with being a doctor or lawyer...and like those vocations requiring a degree of dispassion (ie the fact you KNOW the bastard across the table is 'human filth' doesn't lead you to treat him in anyway differently).
XX "I am just a humble PC" I know and the fact you openly admit to being a PC does you credit although I would question your use of the word humble. XX
ReplyDeleteIt must NEVER be forgotten, that EVERY police department, from Traffic, to dogs, to CID exist for one purpose, and one purpose only, and THAT is to support the Constable on the beat.
Some, especially in CID, would do well to REMEMBER that fact!
"If you all want to defend murderers on here..."
ReplyDeleteBlimey, Jaded, if you think this is a place where 'murderers are defended' you really haven't been reading it properly...
Liebe Arschmitohren,
ReplyDeleteI do hope your parrot is mercifully deaf. Blackshirt screams may appeal to most teutonic ears but never rouse 'Volk' of these shores.
Be informed that UK police were never employed for the single purpose of supporting themselves. Their principal functions have always been to prevent crime, uphold the law with integrity and promote a respectful and fair society.
XX
ReplyDeleteBe informed that UK police were never employed for the single purpose of supporting themselves.XX
EVERY department is there to support the Constable on the beat in his duties.
Justz because some cunt does not like that does NOT make it untrue.
Aask any copper as you are next being interviewed regarding lawn mowers.