Thank you. It's so easy to almost forget the annual poppy day circus. I certainly don't remember 'them' and credit no gory war with respect. Perhaps the only value this occasion could ever serve, is the condemnation of war horrors, mass murder and other lawless atrocities. Cease this pretence of something more noble being worthy of commemoration.
It is interesting to contrast with Germany, where this weekend's celebrations mark not the end of some god awful conflict but the start of the '5th Season', of 'Carnival' (think 'Mardi Gras' without bikinis- Cologne is fucking cold at this time of year). Yep, on the eleventh day of the eleventh month Germans (in the approved cities only of course) get drunkenly debauched whilst wearing stupid jester's hats and laughing to 'my dog has no nose' type jokes. The sort of 'jokes' that would be rejected by Xmas cracker makers.
There is a lesson there somewhere for the poppy clad sheeples. A drunken, drug fueled rave at the cenotaph might be a far more fitting remembrance of young life lost.
We should never forget what our forebears went through to secure our freedom from an evil dictator. How symbolic that Germany chooses to self-medicate on booze filled parties....
I went to our local service for the first time today, I'm told that attendance had doubled. I found it very moving and thought provoking. Thete was an overwellming sense of a community finally starting to heal itself. There was no glorification of war. There was a great sadness, but even greater hope on the faces of young and old.
Jack Ketch, the type of "celebration" you allude to is available 364 days-of-year widely across villages, towns and cities throughout the land, along with the staggering, ill-dressed, shrieking, vomiting masses. Surely half-a-day of sober reflection, perhaps supported by dressing respectfully and talking in hushed tones is not too much to ask.
Even if you cannot bring yourself to commemorate "young life lost" there is no need to belittle those that do.
Melv, It is because of the sacrifices of those you can't be bothered to remember that you have the right to write what you just have. It is a great tragedy that so many had to die in both World Wars and the conflicts that followed, but that should not stop you feeling gratitude for the freedom they have given you, including the opportunity to "not remember them". The only people who don't seem to remember them are the politicians from all countries and political persuasions who fail to learn the lessons of history and continue to send their young and their brave to their deaths. How different it would be if these politicians were made to lead from the front, together with their offspring. How few such conflicts there would be. Today, I proudly paraded with ex colleagues (or their widows) to remember those who deserve to be remembered and, if all goes well, I will do the same next year. Penseivat
Maybe where you are but I happened to be on the street having a smoke during the march past (I live above the main street and don't smoke in the flat). Not only were there a rather pitiful number marching past (which kinda goes with the territory with the actual Old Soldiers but not the other groups). What really struck me however was the lack of other people on the street. Back when I was a kid (late 70s) everyone who wasn't marching came out to stand respectfully...no matter how shitty the weather and it was really nasty here this afternoon. There were so few that this year they didn't even bother closing the main road. Every year so far otherwise they have sent the Army Cadets out to erect barricades.
@Cascadian, actually 'poppy clad sheeples' was a bit mild but I thought the particular Old Soldier's own words would have been too harsh. I really must dig his medals for Pasch and the Somme (or was it Ypes) out of the cupboard and his letters -which are far more important to me than the no-longer-so-shiny bits of metal.
" How symbolic that Germany chooses to self-medicate on booze filled parties...."
By the by Germany has it's own Remembrance Day (might even have been today, Sunday or maybe it's next weekend, I haven't checked) which since the 50's has also commemorated the deaths of those who died at the hands of oppressive regimes. It just struck me that the British News was reporting on Remembrance and the German on Carnival.
When I read what you write in this comment it seems that you are gleeful that attendance is low; is that the correct impression I should have got? Are you boasting or happy about it?
@ Penise. Any quest to find an original idea in your inchoate puddle of neurons, would likely prove as disappointing as the exercise of filleting your body to find an honest bone. You would be venting your mawkish tripe in defence of the custom, if the masses stabbed frogs to remember the fallen at Agincourt.
@Span Ows, no it was an observation tinged with perhaps misplaced sentimentality for my youth and with hope for the future. Made more poignant for me as Granddaughter2 and Youngest Son had just been over to visit both speaking German (alright 'denglisch') and I was caused to wonder, not for the first time, what my own various Granddads and Great Granddads, most of whom swallowed, for a time, the 'Great Lie', would have made of their Prussian/German descendants.
"What really struck me however was the lack of other people on the street. Back when I was a kid (late 70s) everyone who wasn't marching came out to stand respectfully...no matter how shitty the weather and it was really nasty here this afternoon. "
I was in Sainsbury. Very heartening to see the tills fall silent for two minutes.
Thank you. It's so easy to almost forget the annual poppy day circus. I certainly don't remember 'them' and credit no gory war with respect. Perhaps the only value this occasion could ever serve, is the condemnation of war horrors, mass murder and other lawless atrocities. Cease this pretence of something more noble being worthy of commemoration.
ReplyDeleteRemembrance Day has nothing to do with glorifying or commemorating war, to imply so is disingenuous.
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting to contrast with Germany, where this weekend's celebrations mark not the end of some god awful conflict but the start of the '5th Season', of 'Carnival' (think 'Mardi Gras' without bikinis- Cologne is fucking cold at this time of year). Yep, on the eleventh day of the eleventh month Germans (in the approved cities only of course) get drunkenly debauched whilst wearing stupid jester's hats and laughing to 'my dog has no nose' type jokes. The sort of 'jokes' that would be rejected by Xmas cracker makers.
ReplyDeleteThere is a lesson there somewhere for the poppy clad sheeples. A drunken, drug fueled rave at the cenotaph might be a far more fitting remembrance of young life lost.
We should never forget what our forebears went through to secure our freedom from an evil dictator. How symbolic that Germany chooses to self-medicate on booze filled parties....
ReplyDelete;O/
I went to our local service for the first time today, I'm told that attendance had doubled. I found it very moving and thought provoking. Thete was an overwellming sense of a community finally starting to heal itself. There was no glorification of war. There was a great sadness, but even greater hope on the faces of young and old.
ReplyDeleteJack Ketch, the type of "celebration" you allude to is available 364 days-of-year widely across villages, towns and cities throughout the land, along with the staggering, ill-dressed, shrieking, vomiting masses. Surely half-a-day of sober reflection, perhaps supported by dressing respectfully and talking in hushed tones is not too much to ask.
ReplyDeleteEven if you cannot bring yourself to commemorate "young life lost" there is no need to belittle those that do.
Melv,
ReplyDeleteIt is because of the sacrifices of those you can't be bothered to remember that you have the right to write what you just have. It is a great tragedy that so many had to die in both World Wars and the conflicts that followed, but that should not stop you feeling gratitude for the freedom they have given you, including the opportunity to "not remember them".
The only people who don't seem to remember them are the politicians from all countries and political persuasions who fail to learn the lessons of history and continue to send their young and their brave to their deaths.
How different it would be if these politicians were made to lead from the front, together with their offspring. How few such conflicts there would be.
Today, I proudly paraded with ex colleagues (or their widows) to remember those who deserve to be remembered and, if all goes well, I will do the same next year.
Penseivat
" I'm told that attendance had doubled"
ReplyDeleteMaybe where you are but I happened to be on the street having a smoke during the march past (I live above the main street and don't smoke in the flat). Not only were there a rather pitiful number marching past (which kinda goes with the territory with the actual Old Soldiers but not the other groups). What really struck me however was the lack of other people on the street. Back when I was a kid (late 70s) everyone who wasn't marching came out to stand respectfully...no matter how shitty the weather and it was really nasty here this afternoon. There were so few that this year they didn't even bother closing the main road. Every year so far otherwise they have sent the Army Cadets out to erect barricades.
@Cascadian, actually 'poppy clad sheeples' was a bit mild but I thought the particular Old Soldier's own words would have been too harsh. I really must dig his medals for Pasch and the Somme (or was it Ypes) out of the cupboard and his letters -which are far more important to me than the no-longer-so-shiny bits of metal.
ReplyDelete" How symbolic that Germany chooses to self-medicate on booze filled parties...."
ReplyDeleteBy the by Germany has it's own Remembrance Day (might even have been today, Sunday or maybe it's next weekend, I haven't checked) which since the 50's has also commemorated the deaths of those who died at the hands of oppressive regimes. It just struck me that the British News was reporting on Remembrance and the German on Carnival.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDelete" Remembrance Day has nothing to do with glorifying or commemorating war, to imply so is disingenuous."
+1
It's about remembering those who gave their lives to defend our sovereigns' subjects and allies wherever they were born or gave their lives.
From Boer war & before to post WWII including NI, Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yugoslavia + in GB.
I Will Remember Them
jack ketch, 12 November 2017 at 22:05
ReplyDeleteWhen I read what you write in this comment it seems that you are gleeful that attendance is low; is that the correct impression I should have got? Are you boasting or happy about it?
ReplyDelete@ Penise. Any quest to find an original idea in your inchoate puddle of neurons, would likely prove as disappointing as the exercise of filleting your body to find an honest bone. You would be venting your mawkish tripe in defence of the custom, if the masses stabbed frogs to remember the fallen at Agincourt.
@Span Ows, no it was an observation tinged with perhaps misplaced sentimentality for my youth and with hope for the future. Made more poignant for me as Granddaughter2 and Youngest Son had just been over to visit both speaking German (alright 'denglisch') and I was caused to wonder, not for the first time, what my own various Granddads and Great Granddads, most of whom swallowed, for a time, the 'Great Lie', would have made of their Prussian/German descendants.
ReplyDelete"if the masses stabbed frogs to remember the fallen at Agincourt. "
ReplyDeleteI admit I laughed.
"How symbolic that Germany chooses to self-medicate on booze filled parties...."
ReplyDeleteWell, quite!
"There was no glorification of war. There was a great sadness, but even greater hope on the faces of young and old."
That's good to hear.
"Surely half-a-day of sober reflection, perhaps supported by dressing respectfully and talking in hushed tones is not too much to ask."
Indeed it is not.
"It is because of the sacrifices of those you can't be bothered to remember that you have the right to write what you just have. "
Well said.
"What really struck me however was the lack of other people on the street. Back when I was a kid (late 70s) everyone who wasn't marching came out to stand respectfully...no matter how shitty the weather and it was really nasty here this afternoon. "
ReplyDeleteI was in Sainsbury. Very heartening to see the tills fall silent for two minutes.