Anti-gun campaigners protested after it was revealed that a police force had issued a licence to a ten-year-old and 49 shotgun and firearm licences to under-18s.Which is perfectly legal and within the guidelines, so long as their parents give permission.
Did it please the ‘say anything for publicity’ screechy hoplophobes of the increasingly-deranged and irrelevant Mothers Against Guns group?
Readers, it did not…
Lucy Cope, 55, who founded Mothers Against Guns, urged the government to seize the gun and discipline officers (Ed: What for? Is scaring a hoplophobe a police disciplinary offence?) in Bedfordshire who granted the licence.Because Lucy Cope doesn’t agree with your choices for your child, she thinks they should be taken away from you.
‘There is no way a ten-year-old boy should have a shotgun.’ she said.
‘It must be taken away and the licence revoked right now. Young people are dying on the street every day because of guns.
‘Police are recklessly handing out gun licences like Smarties.’
Who is the more dangerous to our society, a ten-year-old learning responsible gun control, or a Righteous busybody like Lucy Cope who believes she is best placed to determine what is best for everyone else?
I think this is one question we needn’t trouble Paul the Psychic Octopus with, do you?
This says it all about her:
ReplyDelete"Where do you find peace in London?"
"I go to the cemetery and do some work or just sit and reflect. You can hear the birds there and the windchimes."
Extract from an interview with her.
The bitch clearly has NO FUCKING IDEA about the reality of gun licensing laws. The image she's creating is of kids running around playing with guns like they're toys - this is clearly not the fucking case . . . and the Metro hasn't fucking helped matters either; where's the exposition on the law as it stands? The explanation of the realities of the licensing laws? No - what we have here is flagrant support for yet another militant fuckwit with an intellectual capacity so restricted she can't see past the "guns are baaaad" argument.
ReplyDeleteIt pains me that this 'bansturbating' muppet gets any air time at all. The fact that the child can only carry and use the shotgun under adult supervision and that it must be stored safely, seems to be lost amidst all the hysteria.
ReplyDeleteI feel like i am living on a different planet to these idiots. What has happened to this country?
Talk about cultural dissonance.
The BBC Eastern region did an unusually sane response to this. They went out and interviewed the police and licence holders. The police had done extensive interviews with the parents and the children, and satisfied themselves that the gun would be kept and used properly.
ReplyDeleteA supervisor from a shooting club explained that like any sport it is best to start young. The young person interviewed was sane, calm and exactly the sort of person who understood that he had to use the gun in the controlled conditions of the club and that later he'd be using it on a sports shoot.
If poor Lucy Cope had not gone to live in central London (she now lives in Peckham), it is possible that her son might not have been killed. She seems to have had a chequered background which has left her prone to confusion and substituting romanticism and emotion for rationality. In particular, she has not understood how prevalent gun ownership was in the rural areas in which she grew up.
Interview with Lucy Cope 28/11/2008
Many of Cope's views would chime with commenters here. (At least, I'd endorse her rejection of the old Gillick ruling, which has caused no end of trouble). It's just that in the grief following the death of her son, Cope found it difficult to distinguish between the guns themselves and the attitudes of the people who own them.
The media keep acting as if the views of the grief-struck must somehow carry more moral or logical weight than the rest of us. It's good to see the BBC not falling in to this error, just for once.
I hate guns. I don't think ten year olds should handle them. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteI look in on your blog now and again. I don't feel that you're a genuine person. Just someone who always sees the glass half-empty. You really must seek out the bad news stories because you are always negative, cynical and boring. Most of all boring.
Get a life . Give yourself a break from your constant carping. Make us all happy. Bog off.
An anonymous shroud is a great thing. . .
ReplyDelete"I hate guns" is not a rational argument, it is merely a declaration of taste.
ReplyDeleteYou are entitled to your opinion and it is just as well that you apologise for it in advance because you offer not a scrap of supporting rational argument as to why this particular tool should not be handled by a minor under supervision, which I already explained is the case.
I find JuliaM's expositions and story-tracking illuminating.
@ Anon - "I hate guns."
ReplyDeleteSo? They aren't compulsory, you don't have to have one and probably wouldn't be allowed a license with an attitude like that.
Why do you think your opinion should count for more than that of anybody else? And why do you think your opinion, or your demands, should be allowed to affect other people's choices?
guns are not dangerous, its the person holding it that makes it so!
ReplyDeletegood for the kid that he is learning responsibility early in life!
There are some pretty gaping holes in Lucy Cope's family backstory you know.
ReplyDeleteI mean, really, unbelievably gaping holes. You'd be amazed.
To lose two children to murder is very hard. To be mocked by one murderer in court, who then manages to get an acquital amidst rumours of jury knobbling - well, that's going to do terrible things to anyone's head.
ReplyDeleteThrow in her own difficult background, 8 children, one of whom was a very difficult teenager....it's not that surprising that she tries to make sense of her life by picking one mission and treating it as if it could have changed her past.
She's grief-stricken. Anyone would be. It still needs to be said gently, repeatedly, that grief gives her no special authority.
WOAR
ReplyDeleteUndoubtedly she has suffered two terrible losses. However, let's look a little deeper eh?
The first of your links says that Sean's killer has never been found.
Hhmmm.
It neglects to mention that his death is described in more detail elsewhere as a "family accident" and that another brother, Michael, stood trial three times for it before eventually being cleared of manslaughter and murder. IIRC from when I lived in the area and followed the incident in the local press, there wasn't any dispute that Michael's hand was on the knife.
I cannot find a link, but I'd swear from memory that Sean also had a manslaughter conviction of his own.
I also seem to recall Lucy Cope as a virulent anti-police activist in the wake of Sean's death, apparently blaming them rather than, shall we say, anyone closer to home.
Get a life . Give yourself a break from your constant carping. Make us all happy. Bog off.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you could lead by example?
Many thanks, Staybryte
ReplyDeleteThat explains why she focuses on guns and not knives. The number of links and quotes since 2003 (when she became a campaigner) suggests that the news organizations have been insufficiently rigorous about checking the information she gives them.
Lucy Cope specializes in emotive quotes which do not stand up to scrutiny, such as her fury at the Army opening a recruiting office in Hackney.
We are constantly told by the Righteous brigade that children are not children, but 'small adults' whose views should be given due respect and weight in the areas of life they inhabit viz Children's parliaments, Student Councils etc etc.
ReplyDeleteBut when one of these 'small adults' wants to get involved in something the Righteous disapprove of, such as shooting, all hell breaks loose. Suddenly they are not capable of being responsible at all, and must be protected from the evils of the world.
Or is it a case of you can do whatever you like (just as long as I approve............)?
Young people are dying on the street every day because of guns
ReplyDeleteAnd how many of those incidents involve shotguns? None, I suspect.
I grew up in what was then Northern Rhodesia, now Zambia. Like all of my friends I had been shooting a .22 LR single-shot rifle since I was able to carry it.
ReplyDeleteWhen I got to 14 and began venturing into the bush, camping out from Saturday to Sunday, my Father said that a .22 would only annoy any animal which posed a danger and he presented me with a .375 rifle, enough gun to drop an elephant (but there were none in our area, but lots of leopards).
He didn't have to worry about safety. We 'kids' knew all about it.
No bolt was EVER put into a rifle until the hunt was to begin. No magazine was ever inserted into the gun until a shot was imminent. There was ALWAYS a second rifle, loaded but with nothing in the breech, standing away to the shooter's left.
Anyone who did not understand and abide by these simple rules was never invited along again.
I shot many impala (now classed as vermin) which were all eaten We simply 'knew' never to shoot the principal males and their harems, but to take only the sick, lame and elderly beasts. They all taste the same. There was never any trophy shooting. Everything shot was for the pot or the freezer.
Not one of us, and there were quite a few, ever dreamed of shooting at a person!
A gun is only a tool, it is not anything evil. The evil is in the wielder of that tool.
"I hate guns"
ReplyDelete"Get a life . Give yourself a break from your constant carping. Make us all happy. Bog off."
Sorry Anonymous, but no-one forces you to come here, and "Bog off." Is hardly an enlightened or enlightening contribution to any debate. Apart from an insight into your own psyche that is.
Oh, forgive me, whose blog is this?
/Trollfeed
The Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) permits a 10 year old to hold a shotgun certificate. I know, because it is my job to do the licensing... The police are enforcing the law as it is enacted by Parliament. Lucy Cope has not the first clue about her subject matter, it seems. Her reaction is about average for people of her persuasion
ReplyDelete"...the Metro hasn't fucking helped matters either; where's the exposition on the law as it stands?"
ReplyDeleteJournalism has a lot to answer for...
"It pains me that this 'bansturbating' muppet gets any air time at all."
Journalism has a lot to...
Oh, wait, I already said that, didn't I? ;)
"The BBC Eastern region did an unusually sane response to this. They went out and interviewed the police and licence holders."
Staybryte's further revelations notwithstanding, that's a pretty good piece of journalism, for a change.
"I look in on your blog now and again...Make us all happy. Bog off."
Bit of a disconnect there, eh, anon?
"Why do you think your opinion should count for more than that of anybody else? And why do you think your opinion, or your demands, should be allowed to affect other people's choices?"
That does seem to be a growing affliction these days. So very many people are suffering from it...
"...good for the kid that he is learning responsibility early in life!"
That was my impression too. This would not be considered strange in America. Or any country with a hunting tradition, in fact.
"However, let's look a little deeper eh?"
Excellent digging!
"Or is it a case of you can do whatever you like (just as long as I approve............)?"
ReplyDeleteSpot on!
"And how many of those incidents involve shotguns? None, I suspect."
Mostly knives, from what I can see from a scan of the latest toll on the streets.
"When I got to 14 and began venturing into the bush, camping out from Saturday to Sunday, my Father said that a .22 would only annoy any animal which posed a danger and he presented me with a .375 rifle, enough gun to drop an elephant..."
If Ms Cope is reading this, I imagine she's just fainted... ;)
"A gun is only a tool, it is not anything evil. The evil is in the wielder of that tool."
Indeed. The progressives sneer at the 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' bumper sticker, but I've never read anything more true, have you?
"Lucy Cope has not the first clue about her subject matter, it seems."
Not having the first clue about anything seems to be no bar to being head of a pressure group these days.
In fact, it almost seems to be required...
Is Longrider your defender? He's not worth reading either. Larf. Sod off to a foreign country and keep him company.
ReplyDeleteYoung people are not dying in the street every day from guns.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I saw her idiotic comment in the Metro during the week.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure the youths shooting each other on the streets of Brixton are not in posession of firearms licences of any kind. Funny, that.
Here we have a kid who's legally keeping a shotgun - in a gun safe that meets the required standards - and learning how to use it safely. Presumably when he goes out shooting with his dad. I'd bet he's a damn sight less of a danger to the public than Lucy Cope behind the wheel - cars kill a lot more people than shotguns.