Two brothers whose behaviour drove a resident to contemplate suicide have been given ASBOs banning them from being in public together.So, why are the parents not in the dock alongside them? Why are they allowed to remain in (nominal) charge of these young thugs in the making?
Police said Dylan Hibbert, 14, and his younger brother Scott, 13, were responsible for smashing up cars, throwing fireworks in drain pipes, swearing and spitting at members of the public.
Community beat manager PC Louise Briggs said it was a case of ‘intense intimidation’ which ASBO prosecutors described as amongst the worst they had seen.
They are now banned from acting or inciting others to act in an anti-social behaviour, which includes making hand gestures, using abusive, intimidating, threatening or racist language, being drunk in public.Somehow, I rather doubt the presence of parents so evidently feckless and uncaring is going to make them think twice about getting up to their old tricks…
They cannot be in public together unless with their parents and have 8pm until 5am curfews.
And once again, as with the previous case of the two girls, we see the utter uselessness of ASBOs banning them from doing things that are already against the law. All these do is reinforce the helplessness of the justice system when faced with incorrigibility.
Isn't it time we brought back the Borstal system?
Isn't it time we brought back the birch and introduce some public humiliation into punishment along with hard labour and FULL sentences along with Capital punishment too.
ReplyDeleteMedical experimentation and a ready source of harvestable organs too!
I'm with Ranter's first paragraph on this: the second brings us too near to that up and coming "democracy", China.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ranter.
ReplyDeleteHard labour and public humiliation is a much better idea than these ASBOs, it could be a good deterrent as well.
The medical experimentation should get the support of the animal rights groups. I can't see many people being upset at experiments being done on these thugs. I mean no one is going to miss them.
The parents of these two won't care will they.
Like Umbongo I agree with the first para.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't forget things like the stocks and pillory. Pin these 2 lads, and parents, down in public and let them be humiliated.
Yes.
ReplyDeleteDuplicating comment for the near identical post. No difference in my solution though whether it's male or female scum...I believe in Equality here.
ReplyDelete...
It absolutely mystifies me that no one in the entire town took it upon themselves to take these two down a dark alley and beat the sh*t out of them.
...
Against the law of course...no right minded person would think of automatically doing this but OH MY GODS the patience of these people and their reliance on authority to solve their problem is absolutely bizarre.
...
How the hell have we become a society of eloi and morlocks so quickly ?
I was going to write "Isn't it time we brought back the birch ?" but see that Ranter has already done so.
ReplyDeleteat the other end of the social spectrum you have cretins like this one, along with a perfect opportunity to punish yet the magistrate doesn't take it. Fined £1K but caused £4K worth of damage PLUS the cost of processing him etc etc etc etc
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23948883-tuition-fees-rioter-who-smashed-up-police-van-dodges-jail-term.do#readerComments
I was only joking about medical experimentation.....OR WAS I?????
While I agree with the idea of bringing back birching, I can't put all the blame on parents.
ReplyDeleteAs the parent of the, former, 3 'politest tear-aways' (according to the police) in our town I know how bloody difficult it is to raise and discipline kids these days. Blair and the 'think of the children' brigade took away nearly all our parental rights.
When i got caught stealing as a young teen my ol'man took his belt to me. If I'd done that to my kid I'd have probably gone to prison and we would have certainly have had all our kids removed by Social Services.
Take away his Xbox? Don't make me laugh, he'd just go and steal another one.
Curfew? I'd have had to 'unlawfully imprison' to keep him in the house.
My kids are now all grown'd up (supposedly) and looking back I know I should have 'manned up', taken the risk and knocked the little shits into the middle of next week when needed. I didn't, and i and THEY and you paid the price.
Don't be so quick to blame the parents, blame the fucking NSPCC.
One can only credit the beat manager for getting the case this far. Most cops are some combination of too idle, too insensitive to the issues as experienced by victims or working in the ludic conditions of "Response".
ReplyDeleteThere are plenty of 'answers' about - all failing foul of lack of resources. - allcoppedout back with open id error
Borstals were actually remarkably liberal AP - not like you at all!
Shinar has a good point. Some blame has to lie with the Childline mentality and Social Services etc.
ReplyDeleteA lot of parents have respect for, (fear of) the laws regarding chastising children. Isn't that what was intended? Now the chickens come home to roost.
Zaphod said...A lot of parents have respect for, (fear of) the laws regarding chastising children.
ReplyDelete...
Ok so why don't those parents find out exactly what the law says on the matter ? Smacking is not [i]totally[/i]illegal...beating the shit out of your kids is.
...
With two kids aged 10 and 13 and just two smacks each in all that time...for fighting each other in a kind of a "If I join in someone's reaaaallly going to get hurt so pack it in and find another way to settle it" lesson...I do find it hard to understand if parents can't manage without smacking.
...
Or is it a teen thing ? Do older kids need to be controlled physically ? Genuine question...cos I have it all to come yet...
Tatty, you are right that it isn't total illegal to spank a child...once through clothing and not using an object.
ReplyDeleteHowever Social Services take even that as proof positive of abuse. And let's be frank a hand slap through jeans is not going to cause any child beyond toddler age to 'fly right'.
Of course no parent should actually beat the shit out of a child (despite what I said about 'knocking into the middle of next week).But there is a huge difference between abuse and discipline.
Did our parents 'abuse' us by taking a slipper/belt/cane to us? No. Not disciplining us would have been the real abuse.
You may well be lucky and have laid the proper foundations with your own kids so that you won't need to use physical chastisement later on. I hope so, I sure as hell didn't but I'm a lousy parent and always have been.
That said, the kindest gentlest man I ever knew once said to me 'I genuinely believed you should never spank a child...UNTIL I had some myself. They taught me different'.
I remember back in the 50s in Glasgow things were very straightforward. First offence , far more trivial than what we see now, usually a severe talking to by the police, scared a lot of us back to good behaviour. Second offence strict probation, third detention, usually two years, in borstal that cured almost everybody, no one wanted to go back. Every kid understood the system and most parents supported it and few of these offences were anything like as serious as we have now. Personally I think the stocks would be a good idea. Also agree that parental responsibility has been reduced, feckless parents don't care and good parents are afraid.
ReplyDelete"Isn't it time we brought back the birch..."
ReplyDeleteI'm sure it's be against their 'human rights'...
"No difference in my solution though whether it's male or female scum...I believe in Equality here."
Hear hear!
"...at the other end of the social spectrum you have cretins like this one..."
Ironically, humiliation would probably work much better for him, if you could get it past Daddy's expensive lawyer. I'm not sure the usual chavscum would consider it humiliation, given their usual lives..
"...I know how bloody difficult it is to raise and discipline kids these days. Blair and the 'think of the children' brigade took away nearly all our parental rights."
Agreed, but I'd like to see some indication they've tried, before I excuse them!
"Borstals were actually remarkably liberal AP - not like you at all!"
ReplyDeleteThey served a good purpose - that of separating the hellspawn from the area and giving the residents a breather!
"...feckless parents don't care and good parents are afraid."
Sadly true.
Borstal was just the word that ran through my mind as I read this article.And now another- cat-o-nine tails.
ReplyDeleteFinally a website I can comment on about these two! I think 100% of the comments are disgusting, the way people are talking about these kids. Dylan and Scott are decent kids, I should know as I'm their older sister. What irritates me is you don't know the half of what these kids have been through, they are the way they are because of the way they were brought up it's their way of dealing with it, admittedly what they have done is wrong, but there is NO need to compare them to the killers of James Bulger or say they'll get worse. Instead of ripping apart Dylan and Scott on the internet where ANYONE can see, why can't anyone try help them!? We have the same mother, luckily I moved away with my dad when I was little so I didn't turn out like this.. But despite that, they are my little brothers.
ReplyDelete