Saturday 3 July 2010

Message To Progressives: ‘From Our Cold, Dead Hands…’

Sahil Kapur, political reporter, uses CiF to share bafflement at why those damn Yanks just can’t listen to the progressives and give up their guns for a world where everyone holds hand amid rainbows:
In a landmark victory for gun-rights advocates, the supreme court on Monday ruled by a margin of five to four that permissive federal gun statutes apply to all US states and cities. The McDonald v Chicago decision deemed unconstitutional an attempt by the crime-riddled capital of Illinois to regulate the possession of handguns.
So, your political system is working as intended, then? What the problem?
It was merely the latest in a string of defeats for gun control advocates, and it may not be over yet. The National Rifle Association, a vastly powerful pro-gun lobby, has pledged to follow up with a series of legal challenges to existing state and local laws regulating firearms possession.
And if they satisfy the constitutional requirements, they’ll succeed, and if they don’t, they won’t.

Again, I fail to see the problem…
Gun control proponents have seen their influence gradually disappear in Washington. Democrats, after being punished politically for their advocacy on the issue during the 1990s, have fully retreated.
Aha, I think we see a reason for Sahil’s dyspepsia.

Those damned voters just won’t get behind the progressive bandwagon! And those damned representatives are actually doing some representing!
This one-way trend defies empirical evidence and cross-country analyses, which overwhelmingly show that lenient gun laws are a public safety hazard.
You can almost hear the gears crunching together in his head, can’t you?
The strong correlation between gun possession and gun violence has been well documented. It's no coincidence that the US, which has the loosest gun laws and highest rates of possession in the industrialised world, also has the most gun deaths.
‘How can this be? Surely correlation is causation, isn’t it? But these awful people don’t want to believe…’
It's clear, then, that public safety considerations are becoming increasingly irrelevant to this debate...

So, what gives?
Well, perhaps the populace is quite content with the way things are, and they don’t think a tiny, narrow-interest group should be allowed to change things?
One factor is the stiff language of the second amendment, which declares: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." (It was adopted in 1791, when the colonies had no standing armies and relied on civilian militias for security – conditions that long ago stopped applying – but it remains unchanged.)

Also – and crucially – gun-rights advocates overwhelmingly and increasingly out-lobby gun-control groups…
Ah, here we go. The Kevin The Teenager Argument: ‘It’s not faaaaiirrrr!
To give you an idea of how tilted the playing field is: last year, the gun lobby defeated attempts in Congress to preclude terror suspects – as designated by the FBI – from buying guns. The same individuals that are deemed too dangerous to get on a plane can freely purchase firearms.
Now, is it me, or would a ‘progressive’ be erring on the side of ‘innocent until proven guilty’ on any other matter, and decrying a ‘no fly list’ as a monstrous imposition? In fact, the Guardian has run just such an article in the last few days.

And it’s particularly delicious that Sahil picks the ‘No Fly List’ as a sterling example of who’s dangerous and can’t be trusted (even if never convicted of anything) in the very week that we find a six year old girl is listed on it….
Arizona last year approved legislation permitting residents to carry guns in bars. Bars!
Aieee! Drink AND alcohol! It’s a wonder poor Sahil can bear to live in such a country, eh?

Not that he’s bitter, or anything…
Thus it hardly makes a difference to the cause of gun control that there's a Democratic president and large Democratic majorities in Congress. Both parties' leaders are now dutifully serving the gun lobby. To wit, Democratic Senate leader Harry Reid issued a statement Monday announcing he's "pleased" with the ruling. "The right to bear arms is one of the essential freedoms on which our country was founded," he said.
Well, there’s a surprise, eh, Sahil? You don’t have the clout that you thought you did. There's not enough of you to get a Democrat elected, and even the Democrats know it...
There remains, however, a glimmer of hope for the underdogs in this fight.

Democratic senator Frank Lautenberg, a vocal advocate for "common-sense" firearm laws, blasted Monday's ruling as example of "activist justices" putting "rigid ideology ahead of public safety".
It seems that’s only a bad thing when a progressive’s sacred cow is gunned down, however…

10 comments:

Obnoxio The Clown said...

Actually, the States gun crime stats are a curious thing: in states where carrying weapons is allowed, gun crime is much lower than in states where carrying or even ownership is illegal.

So, the overall picture is bad for the states, but when you look at the details, I think you'll see a completely different picture.

Which is why I don't believe that allowing carry licenses in the UK is a bad idea.

Brian, follower of Deornoth said...

The representatives of the people upholding the constitution of the people, in defiance of the supreme wisdon of Guardian writers? Clearly they must be stopped.

After all, we don't do things that way this side of the pond.

The King of Wrong said...

@Obnoxio:
Well, you can "prove" anything from correlation...

It could be that some drive-bys in LA led to stricter gun controls in California, otherwise things would be much worse - as Team Progressive would say. It could be that banning legal ownership of guns means that "only criminals have guns" and a docile population (unlike Texas) to prey upon - as the NRA would say. Or it could be that nothing material has changed.

There's certainly no justification for the UK's level of bans: they've made absolutely no difference to gun crime, but stopped a lot of law-abiding people persuing their hobby.

Furor Teutonicus said...

The strong correlation between gun possession and gun violence has been well documented.

The key word which is missing here is;

ILLEGAL gun possession.

Anonymous said...

As an American, let me give you my 2 cents.

40,000 people are killed by firearms in the US. However, almost all of these are either suicide (about ~20,000) or drug/gang related (~19,000). Only a small handful of innocent people are victims of our gun culture. The real problem is the drug war and depression.

Also, ethnic diversity seems to increase crime since evolution has given everyone a gene that says "try to kill those that are different to free up resources for you". This is why the more diverse a country is, the higher the crime rate is. So immigration could also be blamed.

Danny Law said...

but isnt the nub of the problem stated in the main post - that it seems the majority of americans are happy with the gun laws - so why do a small group of anti gun lobbiests think they have the right to have their view enforced on everyone.

i loathe guns and frankly cant see why anyone wants one

BUT

if you are a true democrat then you have to accept there are times when the majority view is not your own and just live with the result.

for me another example would be abortion. i think it is murder. but a majority of the UK public does not. so it should stay legal

but the problem is in the UK and Europe we have a creeping idea that certain groups of the political elite hold ideas and moral positions so superior that it no longer matters what the majority think. you will do as we say and sod democracy.

i personally think it comes from a socialist mind set that thinks the great and the good know better and we the proles should just accept the rules they dream up.

wasnt it woody allen a few weeks ago who said that it was a shame that Obama wasnt a dictator as then you could get a lot of good things done quickly - says it all really

Angry Exile said...

"The strong correlation between gun possession and gun violence has been well documented. It's no coincidence that the US, which has the loosest gun laws and highest rates of possession in the industrialised world, also has the most gun deaths."

Complete and total bollocks, and easily debunked. To expand on Obo's point Vermont has practically no restriction at all on gun ownership and if I recall correctly is the second safest state to live in (the most dangerous places in the US tend to be large cities with restrictive gun laws). Cross country? Well, gun loving Vermont has a murder rate about the same as that of gun free Scotland, while Mexico, which is as anti-gun with its legislation as the UK, is like a bad day on the Somme.

Obviously there is some correlation between gun possession and gun violence inasmuch as for there to be any gun violence at all there must be at least one gun, but it doesn't matter if that gun is owned legally or illegally. Since the defining feature of criminals is that they don't obey laws laws controlling guns aren't a lot of use, which is why Mexico and anti-gun parts of the US still have shocking homicide rates despite their gun laws. I suspect that the correlation that would explain why this happens in anti-gun places like Mexico and some US cities but not in places like Vermont is with the number of violent people who live there. Doesn't matter whether they're allowed guns or not, the violent and criminal will acquire them. If it was as simple as possessing a gun makes someone violent then we should expect the most violent section of the community here in Victoria to be on duty police officers.

JuliaM said...

"So, the overall picture is bad for the states, but when you look at the details, I think you'll see a completely different picture."

Which is why the Guardian NEVER looks at the whole picture..

"...in defiance of the supreme wisdon of Guardian writers?"

You'd have thought their confidence about that would have taken a bit of a knock by now. But no...

"There's certainly no justification for the UK's level of bans: they've made absolutely no difference to gun crime, but stopped a lot of law-abiding people persuing their hobby."

It's a tossup between which has been the most useless knee-jerk legislative effort - post-Dunblane gun laws or the DDA...

"The key word which is missing here is;

ILLEGAL gun possession."


Indeed. Mayor Daley made his usual blustering speech about the desire to take guns out of the hands iof 'those who wished to do harm' and all I could think was 'But they don't obey these laws anyway!'

JuliaM said...

"Only a small handful of innocent people are victims of our gun culture."

That's another reason why these figures are trotted out on the Guardian with no analysis whatsoever...

"...if you are a true democrat then you have to accept there are times when the majority view is not your own and just live with the result. "

The clue there is in the words 'true democrat'. None of the Righteous fit that bill.

"If it was as simple as possessing a gun makes someone violent then we should expect the most violent section of the community here in Victoria to be on duty police officers."

And are they..? ;)

Angry Exile said...

Heh. They have the reputation of being the most trigger happy police force in Oz, which might even be true but probably isn't deserved. One of the UK forces will be the most trigger happy but they doesn't mean they actually shot a lot of people. But my real point was that if it's true that guns=violence then we should see it with on duty police officers, as opposed to off duty ones. Aussie cops don't get to take their issue weapons home with them as far as I know, which is weird because they have the powers of a police officer 24 hours a day but only have the gun on duty - explain that one to me. But the thing is they're no more likely to become mad, deranged killers when they get to work and put the gun on than when they clock off again and go home.