Wednesday, 11 June 2008

Credit Where Credit’s Due

Just to show it isn’t all doom and gloom with local councils, thousands of motorists who were fined £30 for using tram lanes in Sheffield are to get their money back.
The so-called tram "gates" were introduced in the Hillsborough area last year, to allow buses and trams to bypass congested sections of roads.

An adjudicator looked at the cases of seven people who were fined for using the gates, and agreed the warning signs to motorists were not clear enough.
So far, so good. This is where you’d normally see councils whining at how unfair it was that they’d have to give the money back. Not so, in this case:
Council leader Paul Scriven said: "I want common sense to prevail here. An independent adjudicator has reviewed seven appeals and felt that the signs may not be as clear as they could be. The adjudicator did not say that the council should refund all fines, but I want to be fair and give motorists the chance to get their money back."
Good man, Paul Scriven! And he’s a Lib Dem, too….

12 comments:

Anonymous said...

He's a politician too numpty-head.

And what do we think about politicians?

I really think you believe you're an important enough person to "praise" people for the way the've behaved.

You definatley are up yourself badly.

Well done though. Another plank in the coffin of your out-dated and redundant concept of life.

TT

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I'm posting this comment over here as Donal seems to no longer approve of my comments and as you shared your thoughts with me, I thought I'd do the same over with you. Cheers.

Juliam: thanks for your rant, I don't know about you but I base truth on facts and the main principles of discovering scientific truth, that's how I like to assertain truth and the behaviour in this comments section has been pretty conservative. I'm open to anything that can be proven, I'm not like those people who beleive in God, evidence based practice all the way for me.

I'm also pleased by yet another mention of police violence, do they baton charge you often, or any of you for that matter who seem intent on making our police force out as violent thugs?

Finally, you seem to be saying that because we don't go and protest in Burma, North Korea or anywhere else then we can't protest in our own country. That is not only terrible logic but also daft.

For the record, I do work in South Africa now and then in Pollsmoor and the townships. Is that okay with you or not dangerous enough?

JuliaM said...

"He's a politician too numpty-head."

Where did I say he wasn't...? He simply seems to be a politician who is aware that the drivers vote.

"And what do we think about politicians?"

'We', Total Twat? Is that the royal 'We'...?

"I really think you believe you're an important enough person to "praise" people for the way the've behaved."

Oh, I think the 'praise' will come in the form of votes for Mr Scriven from drivers who are happy not to be treated with contempt, like everyone else seems to be doing. I think Mr Scriven will settle for that.. ;)

"Another plank in the coffin of your out-dated and redundant concept of life."

Another meaningless comment from Total Twat. He should get out more...

JuliaM said...

"I'm posting this comment over here as Donal seems to no longer approve of my comments and as you shared your thoughts with me, I thought I'd do the same over with you."

Happy to have you, but I wouldn't take the length of time it takes for comments to appear on that site to heart - I know it can sometimes take awhile to get them through moderation.

"I don't know about you but I base truth on facts and the main principles of discovering scientific truth, that's how I like to assertain truth and the behaviour in this comments section has been pretty conservative. I'm open to anything that can be proven, I'm not like those people who beleive in God, evidence based practice all the way for me."

That's nice to hear. And it has what bearing on the subject...?

"I'm also pleased by yet another mention of police violence..."

Really..? I thought you left-winger types didn't care for it?

"...do they baton charge you often, or any of you for that matter who seem intent on making our police force out as violent thugs?"

Ummm, for anyone reading this in puzzlement, this guy has come over from Donal Blaney's site and the comment about barmy Tim Ireland's 'Operation Manticore'. No, that's not the latest Tom Clancy novel, sorry...

Yes, I know. It takes a great amount of cheek for a left-winger to accuse anyone else of claiming police are thugs...

"Finally, you seem to be saying that because we don't go and protest in Burma, North Korea or anywhere else then we can't protest in our own country."

No, you can protest here all you want, and I haven't said you can't. I'm simply saying that you are a bunch of cowards for doing so, when you know you don't face any real sanction, unlike in those other countries.

"For the record, I do work in South Africa now and then in Pollsmoor and the townships. Is that okay with you or not dangerous enough?"

You mean, when you aren't part of 'Operation Manticore'..?

I do hope you manage to keep your secret identity hidden...

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I think the comment went into the ether and is lost forever.

Oh well.

I was talking about truth because you memtioned it, so I was explaining how truth, for me, is worked out.

I mentioned police violence because everyone in that thread did, seemed weird and just so you know, I used to be a Coomunity Support Police Officer.

Not all 'left-wingers' fit all the boxes you have outlined for them just as some 'right-wingers' do the same, you'll be glad to know however that you are ticking them all at the moment. Politics isn't as simple as left and right is it?

Your idea that because people use the right to protest in the UK but don't go to protest in other countries where they don't have a right to protest makes them cowards is silly and bad logic.

Using the right to protest is just that, being a UK citizen I protest here as I am a citizen here and use the right of my country to do so on issues that effect me here. If I lived in Burma I'm sure I'd protest there. Getting up and doing something about what you believe in is not cowardly but brave. Hope you can see the terrible logic you're using which would mean that if I did protest in Burma then I would be allowed to protest in the UK. Protest Olympics so to speak.

I don't have a secret identity by the way and I've got to go and teach now so see you around I'm sure.

JuliaM said...

"I think the comment went into the ether and is lost forever.

Oh well."


No, there's a comment from you over there which includes the bit you've just posted here, unless you were talking about another one..?

"If I lived in Burma I'm sure I'd protest there."

Yeah, I'm sure you would. Once...

"Politics isn't as simple as left and right is it?"

Oh, it is when you are young. Some people grow up, some don't, as you'll no doubt find out.

"Getting up and doing something about what you believe in is not cowardly but brave."

How is it brave to protest in the UK, where you will face nothing more than ridicule from society for your stand, and the police will come at you with batons only under provocation? Whereas in these other countries mentioned, your livelihood can be ruined and the police will utilise tanks and guns if they simply feel so inclined that day?

Longrider said...

What does it say about the state of affairs when an example of common sense is something upon which we see fit to comment? Yes, well done in this case; that it was common enough not to draw attention would be nice.

JuliaM said...

"What does it say about the state of affairs when an example of common sense is something upon which we see fit to comment?"

That really is the sad thing, isn't it? Paul Scrivens' response should be the norm...

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

Once is enough.

Bit confused by your bit about growing up, as I said politics is not about partizan attitudes or working only in polar opposites. Do you not agree? Is it black and white to you?

It's brave in the sense that it is very easy to sit back and do nothing on issues that you care about, protest is one of the many things you can do to inact postive change.

Bravery is not always about dramatic or big gestures, it's all relative to the situation; a single parent family deciding to go to night school and re-take GCSEs can be brave.

JuliaM said...

"Once is enough."

It is...?

What, you expect a military junta to say 'Oh, that Mr Hoffman-gill, so brave...! We must immediately change our ways..'.

Or the poor, downtrodden people will flock to your example and overthrow their rulers?

A little childish, not to say self-indulgent.

"Bit confused by your bit about growing up, as I said politics is not about partizan attitudes or working only in polar opposites. Do you not agree? Is it black and white to you?"

The bit about growing up was because, for all your claims to maturity and experience on your website, you come across as childish in your reasoning and actions.

See above for another example...

"It's brave in the sense that it is very easy to sit back and do nothing on issues that you care about, protest is one of the many things you can do to inact postive change."

What change do you think you'll have by indulging, with other like-minded dilettantes, in foolish stunts like 'Operation Manticore', devised by publicity-hungry activists who don't even practise the values they feed to their followers?

You'll have none, because the people who matter will (rightly) regard you with even more scorn than they currently do...

"Bravery is not always about dramatic or big gestures, it's all relative to the situation; a single parent family deciding to go to night school and re-take GCSEs can be brave."

Yes, they can.

If we first redefine the concept of bravery to be so debased and meaningless that it can fit in to today's happy-clappy 'all must have prizes' version of society.

But somehow, I think the Chinese student who stood in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square will still encompass the term 'bravery' far better for the rest of the world than your example.

Daniel Hoffmann-Gill said...

I'm a little bemused by why the 'science' of protesting is causing so much hang-up, you seem to be arguing points on a matter of principal and semantics rather than having any evidence and then calling me names.

The 'once is enough' comment was in regard to your statement about how I would only be able to do it once, (please read the entire comment exchange through) I was stating that making your voice heard in such an act, even if once alone is enough, although by no means is this a limit on protest and all of this in the context of I was a Burmese citizen, which I'm not. You seem to have taken it as that I would go to Burma as a UK citizen and protest.

Godness me, this is frankly bizarre Julia, can we not rise above this pedantic level of discussion? It's word play!

Then having read the rest of your agressive rant I've realised that perhaps engaging in this silly debate is quite pointless.

First you refuse to answer my query on your partizan attitudes and call me childish, a classic projection of your own beahviour, then attack my reason when you've offered none and just taking shots at the concepts I out out there. Not constructive or useful.

You fail to see that protest can be some part of change and more importantly is about taking action on matters that effect you and concern you, rather than talking about it. Try it, please, go out and do soemthing, volunteer time with a youth group or spend some time in a homeless shelter, or offer your sevices to mentor young people or go abraod and offer your skills to those in need and share your abilites, take part in local/community politics and engage people in active debate and community action.

Your dismissive response to my example of bravery perhaps shows you for what you are better than any comment I could make: mean-spirited, socially unaware, bitter and quite hateful. You're obsessed with demeaning others rather than being a part of empowering them.

Hence why you do nothing and do something.

You'll be glad to know I'll not be back here again.

JuliaM said...

"The 'once is enough' comment was in regard to your statement about how I would only be able to do it once, (please read the entire comment exchange through) I was stating that making your voice heard in such an act, even if once alone is enough..."

Make no mistake, I read all of your comment. The fact that you consider protest to be 'enough' in and of itself is the first thing that clued me in to your childish and narcissistic way of thinking.

Which is only to be expected from an 'actor', I suppose...

"Then having read the rest of your agressive rant I've realised that perhaps engaging in this silly debate is quite pointless..."

Yes, that's so often the case when people like you realise that what you are selling, sensible people aren't buying.

You pick up your ball and go wailing back to Mummy, who told you you were special and everyone would listen to you agog, and never dissent once you had spoken.

"..mean-spirited, socially unaware, bitter and quite hateful..."

*gasp* Oh, noes!! However will I live with myself... :)

The fact that you consider 'socially unaware' to be one of the biggest pejoratives you can summon up is pretty telling... ;)

"Try it, please, go out and do soemthing(sic)..."

Oh, I am. I'm organising a community quiz night this weekend to raise money for the Gurkha Fund. Some fun for the attendees and some money for people who understand the concept of bravery in a way you'll never do.

It's also a way of paying them back for their service to this country.

I don't see a need to wear it on my sleeve though. It's something I do for others, not so I can bathe in reflected glory.

"Hence why you do nothing and do something."

? Now you are just babbling...

"You'll be glad to know I'll not be back here again."

Sweetie! Dahling..! Everyone will be glad to hear that, believe me...