Friday, 14 December 2012

This Is Why You Don't Bring A Knife To A Gunfight...

On the video, Moody is heard shouting: 'Drop the knife now!' and 'Hands up! Hands up, Ernie! Don't you move, Ernie, don't you move or I'll shoot you!'
Ernie didn't listen. Ernie is no more...

Cue anguished relatives and ambulance chasing lawyers!
The attorney said he has asked the U.S. Justice Department to open an investigation and pursue murder charges against 40-year-old Moody.
'We have communicated to the Department of Justice that this man should be prosecuted for murder,' Burris said.
'He should be held accountable just like anyone else would be held accountable when they engage in this kind of barbaric conduct.'
Although, when we are considering the subject of 'barbaric conduct', it has to be said, Ernie was no choirboy. They never are, are they?
In the report, the district attorney said Duenez was a gang member who served three prison sentences for drug, stolen vehicle and assault with a deadly weapon charges. Burris added that the man was in violation of his parole.
And the police rolled up on a domestic violence call.
The graphic video has been posted on a Facebook group, Justice for Ernest Duenez, adding: 'We once again ask for your help in seeking justice! We need a public outcry!'
Looks to me as if justice was served.

40 comments:

selsey.steve said...

That was some good shooting by Officer Moody! Thirteen rounds in just 4 seconds with only two rounds going astray.
I can see nothing wrong with Officer Moody's actions.

MTG said...

A very tragic outcome but one which Mr Duenez could have influenced so very differently. The footage records a professional Police Officer who is also an impressive marksman.....but your 'justice was served' is OTT, Julia.

Anonymous said...

Cold blooded murder by a cowardly pig . Then again here in britain a man is made a hero , for shooting a kid in the back whilst running away . Even in the wild west it was taboo to shoot a man in the back . Let's hope the brutes don't come for you One day .

selsey.steve said...

@Anonymous.
A round from a Glock G22 in .40 calibre is going to go straight through a human body if it does not touch bone. What you can see in the video looks prety much like an exit wound.
Ever see any gunshot wounds? Thought not. I have.

Noggin the Nog said...

13 rounds in 4 seconds from a semi-auto pistol is not good shooting, it is indiscriminate, trigger happy stupidity.

A good rhyme: 2 is sufficient from a man that's proficient.

I saw no weapon, no immediate threat and therefore no reason to shoot.

We really must get past this idea that because the guy that died was a crim, the guy that killed him was a saint.

How he could miss, twice, from that range, is unbelievable? His background was terrible, who was in the house? I don't know, neither did he.

It has to be said that the vid shows only 4 shots, maybe 5, audio is terrible. It has been heavily edited, as evidenced by the shifting wife.

He clipped him when he was on the floor, posing no threat whatsoever.

The biggest organised gang in the US, with gang colours, gang language and gang loyalty, to the point of an utter contempt for the law?

Bloods? No.

MS13? No.

The 'Protect and Serve' mob? There's ya problem!



MTG said...

@ Noggin
"It has been heavily edited, as evidenced by the shifting wife."

Insofar as the number of rounds fired is concerned, I have no firearms expertise upon which to base a meaningful comment.

However I am confident that any tampering with the video would have aroused my suspicions. If you are correct, perverting the course of justice to facilitate the protection of a State murderer, has involved a huge and successful conspiracy.

selsey.steve said...

@N the N,
Have you ever been in a situation like that? Facing an angry male you already know is a violent criminal and whose wife has already reported to the Police that he's armed? And suddenly he's right there in front of you, apparently reaching for a weapon which could take YOUR life?
I HAVE!
I was an Officer in an armed Police Force for 28 years. I was lucky. Everyone I told to "FREEZE" froze. I had my 6-shot S&W Model 10 with 5" barrel pointed at the target and was ready to use all 6 rounds. The "Two is sufficient from a man who's proficient" pablum, it doesn't not work in real life. You keep shooting until the target stops moving. If, after 6 rounds the target is still moving, reload with your speed-loader and KEEP FIRING.
End of.
You don't gamble with your own life.

MTG said...

You present an excellent case for yourself as an arrogant braggart, selsey steve. It can surprise nobody that you are ex-plod and of a particular variety attracted to dressing up and acting out, the role of Terminator.

Anonymous said...

Melvin has a new target,I feel left out!
Selsey Steve:Melvins and Noggins default position is criminal-good policeman-bad (whatever country they are from).You can't win so don't bother trying.They are typical armchair experts but fail to ever explain how they gained such superior knowledge.
Except a spiteful rant (from NTN) and one you can't understand (from MTG) after this.
Jaded

English Viking said...

Ss,

Yes I have, and I would not, at that moment, have shot him.

I was taught that, though I thought I held a weapon in my hand, I actually held the lives of those I pointed it at.

It's an awful thing to take a life for a good reason, when you are sure, when it was you or him.

To take one in those circumstances was ridiculous, the guy was so hyped it was obvious he was out of his depth, screaming and wailing. (The Cop)

I don't knock him so much, just a little. It was a dangerous situation, with a dangerous man.

But 13 rounds is insanity, and if you watch the vid you'll see the perp on the floor, totally fucked, after 4 (maybe 5) rounds. Then the edit, then at least 8 rounds as he was on the floor. Absolutely no regard for background.

Those 8 were because he wasn't sure. He wasn't sure he'd hit, he wasn't sure the target was down, he wasn't sure.

You should be sure.

At that range I guarantee 99%. The 1% would be a failure to fire. HTF could a trained man miss a static target?

At that range, if you want to kill, and that is all you should want if you point it, 2 is more than enough.

The vid is edited, he executed him, after at least 4 rounds and 2 hits, on the ground, defenceless, unarmed,

Totallly unprofessional, and a very good example of why wankers in blue are nowhere near wankers in green.

Noggin the Nog said...

BTW,

English Viking and Noggin the Nog are the same dysfunctional retards.

I shifted screen tags after a shift in computer, but I remain, basically, the same .

Horrible.

JuliaM said...

"I can see nothing wrong with Officer Moody's actions."

Nor can the DA.

"...but your 'justice was served' is OTT, Julia."

Really? Why not? The criminal justice system didn't work to reform him, clearly.

And yet, a threat has been removed from the community.

"@Anonymous.
A round from a Glock G22 in .40 calibre is going to go straight through a human body if it does not touch bone. What you can see in the video looks prety much like an exit wound."


I think anon was referring to the case of Tony Martin, whose real failing was bad aim...

"I saw no weapon, no immediate threat and therefore no reason to shoot."

The cop doesn't HAVE to see weapon, just have reasonable suspicion that there is one. And Ernie's record provides that.

JuliaM said...

" The "Two is sufficient from a man who's proficient" pablum, it doesn't not work in real life. You keep shooting until the target stops moving."

Same rule as in big game hunting, then?

"But 13 rounds is insanity, and if you watch the vid you'll see the perp on the floor, totally fucked, after 4 (maybe 5) rounds. Then the edit, then at least 8 rounds as he was on the floor. Absolutely no regard for background.

Those 8 were because he wasn't sure. He wasn't sure he'd hit, he wasn't sure the target was down, he wasn't sure. "


I'm always amazed, reading reports of police shootings, how many miss. But then we forget that no training can prevent the effects of adrenaline, and that the cop has the same amount coursing through his body as the suspect.

Which is why, if I'm ever told to do something by a cop with a gun, I'll do it, no questions, no arguments!

If he's in the wrong, it can be sorted out at the station. Not at the mortuary...

JuliaM said...

"BTW,

English Viking and Noggin the Nog are the same dysfunctional retards.

I shifted screen tags after a shift in computer, but I remain, basically, the same ."


I did wonder... :)

MTG said...

"Really? Why not? The criminal justice system didn't work to reform him, clearly. And yet, a threat has been removed from the community."

Far wiser to play the psychopath unconvincingly, Julia. ;)

Able said...

Noggin or Viking - whichever you feel like being today

So what do we have? A known violent gangbanger armed with a knife (seen, and also 'known to carry a gun'). What would you do? Talk him down? If so you'd most likely be dead.

How dangerous is a knife? Look up the Tueller Drill and try placing yourself in such a situation instead of doing the usual 'police are bad' mindset.

As to "2 is more than enough" just what planet are you living on? (armchair experts like you make me laugh) All professional service trainers (including British, I know) state firing until the assailant is 'rendered no longer a threat' (the SF recommend multiple brain-stem shots if possible to do so without allowing a response).

You might want to consider just why we adopted .455 (and the US .45), the reason was because of the numbers of attacks which succeeded after multiple (>6) hits with, the previous service issue major calibre, .38. There are literally thousands of recorded episodes of criminals hit (including in the head) by many numbers of rounds and yet still continuing to fight (injure and kill innocents and officers alike).

That the family (what a lovely bunch they seem) and lawyers are lining up for blood money is never a surprise, but from what little I saw - a 'righteous shooting' if ever there was one.

Oh, and on the video I can identify only four shots fired - and definitely none when the man was down - I'd question your 8 shots when he was lying defenceless if I was you.

Just Sayin'

Able said...

Just examined a better video:

http://www.policeone.com/investigations/articles/6064004-Video-Officer-fatally-shoots-knife-wielding-man/

Clearly shows warnings given and ignored, man exiting vehicle with knife in hand, and yes eleven shots, two of which appear to be when down but still moving.

The argument appears to be still valid and the courts agreed.

As to the family? Well maybe if the officer hadn't shot him that 'ever so loving wife' he had been threatening earlier would now be being buried instead.

MTG said...

It is now apparent that Noggin's assertion of video tampering, was correct. The earlier video is a 'special edition' - one with frames removed from it showing Moody repeatedly pumping lead into a prostrate Duenez.

This tampering provides the viewer with a distorted version of events. To ensure viewers are completely duped, the video has been professionally re-assembled in a seamless fashion.

The rest of us can now see the reason why police went to such a risky extreme in faking this video 'evidence'. I hadn't realised a new Artform had been perfected, Noggin. My apologies.

Able said...

The 'tampered' video was released by the families legal advisors - make of that what you will.

Anonymous said...

"Clearly shows warnings given and ignored, man exiting vehicle with knife in hand, and yes eleven shots, two of which appear to be when down but still moving."

Well that's not true - when examining the scene it was realised that when exiting the vehicle Ernest Duenez got his foot caught in the seat-belt (you can see him almost falling as his foot tugs him back into the vehicle). It was when he went to untangle his foot he was shot (Moody claiming he thought he was reaching for a weapon in the car).

Sometimes it's best to wait for the facts of the case to be represented than just make things up.

As for whether it was deserved - well the US has a huge problem with crime / communities / Policing - something I really hope we will never see and witness over here.

Noggin the Nog said...

Not very Able,

I've looked down the wrong end of gun plenty of times. I'm not an armchair General, I've been there, seen that, etc.

I was never taught to keep firing on a corpse, I was taught to do a job with two, conserve ammunition, move to the next target.

Shooting people that are already fucked is just stupid.

Hit the 'T', and it's over. Hit it twice, even with a 38, which that wasn't, and the fat lady starts warbling.

The damage a 38 will do at that range is appalling. A 45 is much worse. There is no way anyone could withstand two shots in the right place.

To have blood on your hands is a terrible thing, but to do it without a good reason is wicked.

MTG said...

You must be peckish, Noggin. Biting on bait brought by dumb plod trolls is a touch graceless.

Able said...

Noggin

Oh how very droll - I bet you had to get help with that one.

Never taught? Hmm, ever hear of the Mozambique drill? Can't be that you're too old since that was the 70's. Try some basic research on ballistic effects (a good number of treatise published by the FBI as a beginning - all recording multiple episodes of assailants continuing to attack after being shot multiple times with large calibre bullets. Also try Massad Ayoob). At least try to do some of those fact things.

There is a considerable difference between a lone police officer and a squad of military. You (and I'm being generous since most of your comments indicate that your 'military' service was gained either via Hollywood or doing Halo or at best as some REMF) aim to wound an enemy - a police officer must aim to disable a threat, to do that you fire until the assailant is down (and that includes the policy of British police - like I said, one shot stops, shooting the gun out of hands of bad guys and .45s blowing men twenty feet through the air - Hollwood! It's not real! Sorry to shatter your illusions).

Anon

So whilst you can see in the vehicle where his foot is trapped you entirely missed the knife which even the prosecutor and family admit? So the officer should have waited for him to untangle it? Afraid your agenda is showing!

Noggin the Nog said...

Not very Able,

Absolutely correct, never aim to wound, always shoot to kill.

In that situation, at that moment, I would not have shot.

2 is more than enough.

BTW, I'm real. A bit old, but real.

Why people play these video games I do not know.

jaded said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Able said...

Noggin

You really are living somewhere where the buses don't stop aren't you?

It must be hard keeping track of all the imaginary things you've done but do try.

Here's another hint. The current and ongoing debacle around 5.56 is centered around the fact it was designed and adopted for the European theatre (enemy = russians). Wound them and you take three out of action, minimum (a basic military doctrine one would assume anyone with real prior service would be aware of). The problem with current theatre ops is that the enemy can, and will, continue to kill even after shot multiple times with 5.56, thus the demands for a return to 7.62 or the adoption of 6.8.

So take note:

SS109 (5.56) has a muzzle of around 1325 ft·lbf

typical handgun energies:

.38 special - 310
9 mm - 350
.45 ACP - 400
.40 S&W - 450

So, simple common sense (I know I'm being optimistic in hoping you have some) but if a person can take multiple hits with 5.56, and no one doubts these events occur, then a piddling little .40 isn't going to do miracles.

Oh, and a tip, if you claim to know something and someone (with actual knowledge and experience pulls you on it) the best thing to do is bow out gracefully, not scream that you know better. Armchair expert is all you've shown yourself to be - end of!

Noggin the Nog said...

Fuck me, an expert at maths, good for fuck all.

I bet you know the muzzle velocity of a Glock.

Twat.

Point the fucking thing.

You sad wanker.

Anonymous said...

"So whilst you can see in the vehicle where his foot is trapped you entirely missed the knife which even the prosecutor and family admit? So the officer should have waited for him to untangle it? Afraid your agenda is showing!"


You cannot see his foot being trapped - if the officer had realised what had happened I doubt he would have shot. He however could/did not know and therefore went with the only information he had to judge the situation.

As for having an agenda - I think you becoming one of those paranoid/conspiracy theorist seeing things that are not there.

Able said...

Anon

You stated that the facts had not been represented when they clearly had, in presenting the full unedited video, copies of legal testimony and criminal records. The fact that an edited version, either by the families legal advisor, or more likely the press, indicates no attempts to conceal facts by the police (but a possible attempt to portray the 'victim' in as good a light as possible).

An agenda is listed in the Oxford English Dictionary as "the underlying intentions or motives of a particular person or group". Therefore what I stated was that in questioning the evidence you were clearly showing, to my mind an unwarranted, bias against the police officer involved. No more, no less.

Noggin

Probably I do, although as anyone with even a semblance of firearms knowledge knows, it would depend on the model, barrel length, calibre and specific type of ammunition used (if you want to be exact then barometric pressure and altitude would affect it too). ;-p

'In an arguement, insults are the last refuge of the intellectually incompetent' says it all, doesn't it?

MTG said...

@ Noggin

Foul-mouthed sledging is an unsportsmanlike response to clean bowling, Sir!

JuliaM said...

"The 'tampered' video was released by the families legal advisors - make of that what you will."

Quite!

"Why people play these video games I do not know."

Because they are well-made? I lack the reflexes for most modern FPS games, sadly. I'll stick to hunting electronic deer.

MTG said...

"The 'tampered' video was released by the families legal advisors - make of that what you will." Quite!

Cut and paste blogging is compromised by a failure to properly research material, Julia.

English Viking said...

MTG,

I'm afraid my tolerance fot teenagers is quite low, and swearing ensues.

Julia,

I saw one of these games the other day, and I must admit that it was impressive. Must have taken a lot of time from some very clever people.

But, what's the point?

jaded said...

Well well well,Noggin is the reincarnation of English Viking. Didn't see that one coming.I wondered where you had gone!

Anonymous said...

There is a vaccine available to protect you from the risk of catching intelligence, jaded.

jaded said...

You seemed to have overdosed Melvin and the side effects are repetitiveness and pompousness.

English Viking said...

Hey Jaded,

We're still friends though, eh?

English Viking said...

Jaded,

I did spend a little time in an 'institution' recently, which explains my absence.


I've got this thing about fighting, gets me into no end of trouble.

MTG said...


Wow! that wasn't me, WC Jaded. I know you to be a very advanced individual with superior faculties.

A different character would announce to the entire world, the distinction of being the first in your family to be born without scales and gills.

jaded said...

"Normal" service is resumed Melvin.