Saturday 6 August 2011

Hobby Horses

A clue to the usefulness of the Mark Duggan shooting is how quickly it's disappeared from the front page of the 'Guardian', the Beeb, the 'Indy' and other papers.

Probably because it's clearly not going to be useful for the 'Police shoot innocent black people!' crowd, given that - despite the relatives and bystanders queueing up to tell their tales of how he was a good bloke really, never in any trouble, rescued kittens from tree in his spare time etc - his FaceBook pictures told a somewhat different tale.

That's not stopped some people from using his untimely (but likely to prove perfectly justified) death as a reason to get what they want:
Inspector Gadget supports the immediate routine arming of all UK police officers.
Really?

So, specially-trained and equipped firearms team conducts successful operation = every bobby on the beat should carry a Glock?

No, sorry. Not convincing. Not even to your own colleagues.

20 comments:

Gallovidian said...

Sure Gadget, once we are armed you can be armed too. That's fair.

Quiet_Man said...

If they can be trusted with guns, then we all can be trusted with guns.
save we know they can't...

Anonymous said...

Difficult subject I know. We do discuss this at work and my colleagues are fairly evenly split on this issue.
I personally would not campaign to be armed but if issued with one I would carry it.I would prefer taser as a middle option.
PS All the members of the public saying they want one-that's a silly argument. We will be trained and if we don't pass the course we wont be allowed to have a gun.
Jaded
MTG,i'm sure you have an opinion on this..........

Anonymous said...

Arms race is bad for the UK
my old man told me that you should not point a gun at anyone unless you intend to pull the trigger.
}

Gallovidian said...

"We will be trained and if we don't pass the course we wont be allowed to have a gun."

SNORK

MTG said...

Once in a while, Gadget is owed a certain degree of verbal support, WPC Jaded.

In the matter of this hobby horse, I consider it my moral duty to abet and encourage her along a heading upon which she and her readership have embarked.

SBC said...

It is really very simple.

You get caught with an illegal firearm you get a mandatory 5 years. You shoot a copper you'll probably get Community Service.

So, as has happened at least twice since the obscene Blair Gun Laws came in, the police Stop-Search someone who is 'packing' and get shot at.

Because the math is simple: If I hand over the gun I get 5, if I shoot maybe I'll get away and if I do get caught then at most I'll get 10 years.

And I'm talking from personal experience here. If I were still an active armed criminal then I know what would happen if they stopped me and i still had my Browning Hi-Power or Star PD...self preservation.

So yes, every copper needs to be armed so he can have a colleague 'cover' him when he stops someone.

Surreptitious Evil said...

Julia,

I don't think you quite read Shijuro's article - he supports arming the police - he just doesn't think our politicians have the necessary backbone.

Anonymous said...

Large elements of them are already carrying whatever they may say.

Budvar said...

Jaded, I'd personally like to see a relaxing of current gun laws. Prior to the 1920 gun control act, bying a gun was like buying a mobile phone, you just walked into a shop and bought one.

The only reason gun control came into being was TPTB were concerned that what happened in Russia 3 years earlier might happen here.

I think it was the 68 act, although I could have sworn it was until the mid 70s (maybe wrong) that you could get a shotgun licence from the post office like you'd buy a TV licence. I also remember being able to buy shotguns out my mothers catalogue.

This isn't that long ago, and I don't recall shoot outs in the streets up and down the land every weekend.

I think there's a case for routine arming of police, and I also think there's a case for "Home defence" as a legitimate reason for firearms licensing too.

We're in Europe now (for better or worse), and they seem to manage without wild west shoot outs all the time, even without our draconian gun legislation.

I'd like to see us somewhere between the French and Spanish idea of gun legislation.

Budvar said...

F'ups set

SBC said...

"The only reason gun control came into being was TPTB were concerned that what happened in Russia 3 years earlier might happen here."

Exactly right, and they were painfully aware that they had thousands of battle hardened weapons trained vets in poverty. They only had to look at Germany to see what could happen, not to mention the Irish.

Of course we should have 'european' gun laws.

Lynne said...

Duggan - one less scumbag to worry about. What's not to like?

As for arming the police - I said no back in the 70s even though I'd completed a firearms course. However, the world is a more violent place these days, particularly in cities. Why not train bobbies to fire baton rounds?

Anonymous said...

Blimey-I feel like King Canute trying to hold back the anti-police tide on this blog.Am I the only Plod that reads it?
Dear Gallovidian-please feel free to SNORK but the firearms course is tough and some of us will fail.The same as when I did a driving course,some fell by the wayside.
Jaded
PS MTG-you have an annoying habit of referring to me as WPC Jaded when I have made it quite clear I am male.I notice you describe Gadget as female as well.Is it just bad manners or do you a problem with women?We are not in the playground after all.Please answer in words most of us can understand.

SBC said...

@Jaded

Instead of bemoaning the 'tide' ie the amount, what should perhaps give you pause for thought is the diversity of the posters and the diversity of their political views.

....and the fact that about the only thing we can all agree is that we no longer trust the Police...and that vegans and cyclists are scum of course.

Anonymous said...

"They only had to look at Germany to see what could happen, not to mention the Irish."

In fact Northern Ireland has the highest per capita number of legal firearms in Europe, one legally-held gun for every 11 people. Agrarian economy, wildfowlers, clay-pigeon clubs, and - unlike in England - pistol clubs. The police in N.I. don't have a problem with issuing firearms certificates.
Guns are regarded as sporting equipment or for work except by criminals, who by definition don't obey the law and don't apply for certificates.

Anonymous said...

Ah SBC,once again you have fallen into the MTG trap of thinking that you speak for everyone.We do not all agree-on anything.
I'm cycling off to the cafe now to have my nut-cutlet for lunch.
Jaded

Anonymous said...

Ah SBC,once again you have fallen into the MTG trap of thinking that you speak for everyone.We do not all agree-on anything.
I'm cycling off to the cafe now to have my nut-cutlet for lunch.
Jaded

Anonymous said...

The nut supreme in blue, who claims to be a man, has now let it slip that she is on her cycle.

JuliaM said...

"PS All the members of the public saying they want one-that's a silly argument. We will be trained and if we don't pass the course we wont be allowed to have a gun."

Presumably this guy passed. Oh, wait. He was the instructor...

/facepalm

"So yes, every copper needs to be armed so he can have a colleague 'cover' him when he stops someone."

Or life could mean life..?

"I don't think you quite read Shijuro's article - he supports arming the police - he just doesn't think our politicians have the necessary backbone."

Oh, I know. But at least he doesn't call for something he knows full well he won't get.

"Duggan - one less scumbag to worry about. What's not to like?"

As it turned out, the reaction of the 'community' and the lily-livered response to it from the police chiefs and the top politicians...