Friday 7 January 2011

Bradford: Twinned With, Well, Any Police State From History...

Yesterday, in the comments here, an anonymous commenter drew my attention to this story in a local newspaper (now picked up by the 'Mail'):
A woman has told how she was left “stunned” when her boss was contacted by vice squad officers after her car was seen in Bradford’s red light area.

Anne-Marie Carroll, 45, who is a member of the Bradford Catholic Players, was on her way to the group’s rehearsal rooms in Rebecca Street, driving alone in a company car, which was noted by officers investigating kerb crawling.

A letter was then sent by the Bradford District Vice Team to the Carroll Cleaning Company in Halifax, where she works as a sales director.
Luckily, it happens to be a family business:
Her twin brother, Nicholas, the company’s managing director, opened the letter, which said the details of the circumstances in which Miss Carroll was seen would be kept on record unless she objected, and that she should speak to officers so they could confirm she had not committed an offence.
Yeah, we need to see that one again, I think:
"...that she should speak to officers so they could confirm she had not committed an offence."
Welcome to Third World Policing tactics - you are automatically guilty until you prove to the police that you have a reason for being where you were at the time.

It's been a long time since I read any 'Judge Dredd', but I don't think even he had the balls to demand that from the unfortunate citizens of Mega-City One, did he? And even Nazi efficiency didn't extend to the sending of letters - when they rocked up to demand 'Papieren, bitte!', at least they did it in person...

Naturally, Miss Carroll- probably never having thought about this before, is understandably bewildered and furious:
Miss Carroll said: “I was stunned.

“For years and years we have always attended the rehearsal rooms at Rebecca Street without problems.

The fact I’m a woman on my own, it beggars belief.

“My concern is with innocent people who, like me, drive company cars, a letter will go to their employers.

“It casts aspersions immediately and once that aspersion has been cast there would always be that cast of doubt as to what they were doing.

“Unless I am prosecuted I do not think they have any right at all to hold my details on file.

I am a law-abiding citizen and I think it is an absolute outrage. They can’t do this to people.”
Sorry to disappoint you, Miss Carroll, but they clearly seem to believe they can, because no-one is reining them in, and what they are allowed to get away with, they will continue to do. Especially when it's driven by the poisonous legacy of Harman and Baird.

Still, now that the light of publicity has been shone on them, and they've realised that their tactic have the potential to cause embarrassment for innocent people, they'll call a halt, right?

Wrong:
Supt Williams said: “We make no apology for the robust way in that we tackle the issue of kerb crawling in Bradford.

“This particular tactic to target the men who solicit women has been used for a number of years in the city and with notable success.

“The letters are sent out following detailed observations of a vehicle’s movements and the registered owner is contacted whether it is an individual or a business.

“In circumstances where the drivers are found to have legitimate reason for their activity, they are immediately removed from our records.”
The arrogance is breathtaking, isn't it?

Still, as a commenter points out, this swings both ways:
"bredandbuttered, Heaton says...

But its human nature to think the worst.

When I see a policeman I assume there's a possibilty that he's a racist thug
."
He's got a point.

As 'Going Fast, Getting Nowhere' asks, just what is the point of the police? Is it now about punishment, rather than prevention?

And as DumbJon points out, where are the civil liberties crowd when this sort of thing is going on right under their noses?

17 comments:

Woodsy42 said...

Just out of interest.
If such a thing were to happen to a male visitor to the rehearsal, who might even ask directions of a pedestrian, and such a leter to his employer affected his career could he sue the police?

Woman on a Raft said...

Whenever I see the word 'Bradford' I pause to wonder if there is something else going on, something we can't talk about.

The other story which the Times is now running - and the BBC is largely ignoring - about sex gangs targetting young girls. It is possible some of them cruise along looking for pick-ups.

It would be discriminatory to look at the driver to note that they are in fact a lady and to check - whch anyone is entitled to do - exactly what goes on in the Rebecca Street Gospel Hall.

But it wouldn't be discriminatory if everybody got a letter, including the Catholic ladies of the church Am Dram group.

I can't think of any way for a police officer to explain this and yet stay in their job.

However, part of me longs for a comedy angle and for them to send a letter about large dark company cars, several of which were filled with men, crawling along the Bradford streets, some of them in residential areas. And when the funeral director opens the envelope he goes ballistic....

Dick Puddlecote said...

The arrogance is astounding, you're right Julia. The scope for harm to the lives of innocent citizens is huge, if the police can't recognise that they shouldn't have anything more responsible to do than flipping burgers at Maccy D's.

Jiks said...

These last two stories paint a very familiar picture of police priorities.

On one hand we have the police seemingly paying no interest to real crime, in this case mass theft by well organised criminal gangs. On the other, we have people going about their lawful business being harressed and threatened to the extent they could easily lose their jobs.

Let's say the person stopped had been a man employed in a job requiring these ludicrious CRB checks. He would be unemployable instantly.

Of course the police would be making no apology then either...

Anonymous said...

Apart from the horrifying police state aspect, if the local council aren't outraged by this on behalf of their council tax payers then they should be. There will be legitimate residents and businesses in the area who now find themselves in a no-go zone for anyone who values their reputation or job. If you really want an area to slide downhill even further that seems as good a way as any.

Furor Teutonicus said...

I wonder what would have happened had she been wearing a bin bag attending a sing along at the local mosque?

Rob said...

So, are these red light areas clearly marked as such? If not, you have areas of the city where you can be smeared as a pervert by the police and not have the slightest idea why.

This is about as far from good policing as you can get - arbitrary persecution based on NO LAW for simply being in an area which is not defined and the significance of which you are likely to be unaware of.

Still, the victims are overwhelmingly male so no-one who matters gives a fuck

Mrs Erdleigh said...

Off topic, but another rare event happened

http://www.gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/D9C284C2D3E5A839802578110051439D

Uncle Badger said...

Thankfully, I am not a lawyer - but it occurs to me that there might be grounds for a libel case or, if not, defamation.

We need an A.P. Herbert.

David Gillies said...

The toms used to hang around Manningham Lane until the Men of No Appearance sent them packing. Then they started infesting the streets round Bradford Uni where I used to work. I was strolling down the road to get a post-work snifter in the Fighting Cocks (hah!) when this raddled old trollop staggers out of a doorway. "Fancy a shag?" shouts the apparition. "How much?" says I. "Fifty quid." "OK," I reply, "but I want the money up front!" God, did I get an earful.

I'd probably have been done for solicitation these days.

Pavlov's Cat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pavlov's Cat said...

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted and you create a nation of law-breakers."

Ayn Rand - Atlas Shrugged

"The best political weapon is the weapon of terror. Cruelty commands respect. Men may hate us. But, we don't ask for their love; only for their fear. "

Heinrich Himmler

"We make no apology for the robust way in that we tackle the issue of kerb crawling in Bradford.!

Supt Angela Williams

microdave said...

@ Rob - that sounds very much like Section 44 being used to stop people taking photographs....

Anonymous said...

Where were these valiant Vice Cops when some nutter was wandering around with a crossbow???

Speaking of the Figthing Cock...I've been stopped in broad day light, on a Saturday afternoon walking from the pub to Valley Parade...where do they find these wastes of oxygen???

JuliaM said...

"...could he sue the police?"

Doubtful. What would he sue them for?

"Whenever I see the word 'Bradford' I pause to wonder if there is something else going on, something we can't talk about.

The other story which the Times is now running - and the BBC is largely ignoring - about sex gangs targetting young girls."


Yes, and now Jack Straw's opened his mouth, their silence is going to be even more noticeable...

"And when the funeral director opens the envelope he goes ballistic...."

:D

"...if the police can't recognise that they shouldn't have anything more responsible to do than flipping burgers at Maccy D's."

I think we have to realise that the police no longer wish to operate with the acceptance and help of the public; they are now 'above' that.

JuliaM said...

"If you really want an area to slide downhill even further that seems as good a way as any."

Good point.

"This is about as far from good policing as you can get..."

It's as far from Peelian principles as you can get, yes. But sadly, these days, it probably DOES count as 'good policing' i.e. focussing on chosen 'victim groups'...

"Off topic, but another rare event happened"

I think the link didn't come through - I get a 'Are you looking for any of the following?' error :(

"God, did I get an earful."

SNORK!

JuliaM said...

"Where were these valiant Vice Cops when some nutter was wandering around with a crossbow??? "

Good question. But as Pavlov's Cat points out above, their priorities aren't necessarily what we think they ought to be...