...from his position on the other side of the set, the ITV presenter suddenly launched into the debate off-mic.
The former Dancing On Ice contestant interrupted Mr Apter, saying: "Prison doesn’t work though, I’m sorry."Which will come as a surprise to those who think that if the little thugs are in jail, they can't go stabbing people on the streets...
"I’ve grown up in some of these communities you are talking about and prison is not a deterrent.
"Some of these boys don’t fear prison, if we don’t change the environment we won’t change anything. This has been happening for years, years, and it’s not always in the media."Who is this 'we'? Is it weather men? Is it Dancing on Ice contestants?
I know one thing. It doesn't seem to be 'parents'.
Alex, who runs a Diversity School Tour Project where he visits inner-city schools to talk about working in the media, added: "All of you guys have benefited from the environment you’ve grown up in, this work environment, I’ve benefited from it too.
"But if you don’t show these boys a different environment you won’t change anything."Why don't these people ever appeal to the ones who have daily contact with 'these boys' from the moment they are born* to change the environment?
* No, not 'fathers'. Let's not be silly!