Thursday 21 July 2011

Not So Much ‘Away In A Manger’…

…as ‘Dog In A Manger’:
A row has blown up over prayers held before council meetings in Ryedale.

Currently a vicar is brought in by the leader of the council, to lead a few minutes of prayer before the full council meeting starts.

Now Liberal Democrat councillors, Coun Tommy Woodward and Coun John Clark, have put forward a motion that prayers should be moved from the council chamber to take place prior to the meeting in a separate room.
Oh, here we go.

If there’s anything more tedious and irritating than the religious, it’s the vehemently anti-religious…
Coun Woodward, an atheist, said: “I am also a liberal, so I don’t think the prayers should be stopped altogether, just stopped from being held in the council chamber, when all the councillors are present and held prior to the meeting in a separate room.

I don’t see why those of us who aren’t religious should have to be there while they’re taking place. I could take it upon myself to walk out of the room, but that draws attention to me at every meeting.”
Right, two things. Firstly, what do these clowns think will happen if they are present in a room where prayers are said? That they’ll catch a nasty dose of religion?

And the second thing, if drawing attention to yourself is to be avoided, why go running to the local newspaper with this?
Canon John Manchester, who was chaplain to many of the council’s chairmen, said: “Whether it is Parliament or local government, those elected people need to remember that they are also answerable to a higher authority.”
And you can just shut up as well!
But Coun Woodward said: “The only people I’m answerable to are the people that elected me. He may feel he’s answerable to a higher authority, but I don’t.”
I’m pretty sure that you don’t feel yourself answerable to the people who elected you, either. God knows, if you did, it’d make you pretty unique.

So why this particular storm in a teacup, anyway? Don’t they have more pressing matters to deal with in Ryedale?
“There are a few things that happen on this council because that’s the way it has always been done, including that if you don’t have a majority, the largest party takes the chairmanship of the overview and scrutiny committee, which is the way it should be. If they can get rid of other things, I can get rid of the prayers.
Ahhh, I see. You’re doing it not because you have some deep conviction, but simply because you can.

How very adult of you.

32 comments:

Quiet_Man said...

They can always turn up after the prayers as many parliamentarians do. Though many Tories turn up simply to get a better seat :D.
Wish there was a way to get councillors recalled if they do this sort of thing, it's very tedious.

Angry Exile said...

If there’s anything more tedious and irritating than the religious, it’s the vehemently anti-religious…

Wouldn't it be good to catch Richard Dawkins at a book signing at ask him to write that inside the cover?

Shinar's Basket Case said...

[second attempt to past cos somedays I'm too stupid to be allowed on the intrawebz]

"If there’s anything more tedious and irritating than the religious, it’s the vehemently anti-religious…"

As a fairly devout Xian myself I have to say I find that comment...

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING RIGHT!

The only people who can get up my nose more than my loving fellow Xians are the antis...who strangely enough tend to be Guardian Readers to a man...oOOOps my bad, I meant of course 'to a person'.

Anonymous said...

The danger* is not that you have Christians leading prayers, but more when you get someone from one of those strange, misogynistic desert cults to lead them.

*The danger here is, in fact, a determination to be 'diverse' and 'accepting' in a way that some cults aren't.

Mike said...

chunter on in latin, fiddle with beads, put a bag or a towel on your head, give all your money to Tom Cruise, smoke pot cus it brings you closer to god for all I care but if your at work, work, if not, I don't care what you do as long as it has no adverse effect on me.

if you come to my house to tell me about your religious beliefs be prepared to meet my pet lion

Anonymous said...

"Whether it is Parliament or local government, those elected people need to remember that they are also answerable to a higher authority."

Perhaps he was thinking of Brussels?

JohnW

Mike said...

or the IMF?!? polar bears, people who chose to populate uninhabitable areas of the planet, the list goes on ;)

Mike said...

what do opinions and ass holes have in common?

Mike said...

religious belief being faith based and therefore an opinion, unproven, scientifically flawed. thank the maker.

Shinar's Basket Case said...

" strange, misogynistic desert cults"

that would seem to me to be a pretty good definition of Xianity itself.

Oh right, you probably meant Islam? The whole 'Jihad' thang? Well lets ont forget that besides commanding us to love one another that JC also commanded us to 'tool up' and carry swords...hell he even said a sword was even more important than bread.

*Michael Cain Impression* "Notta lotta Xians know that"

Gallovidian said...

Christianity is as it is because Europeans made it into the image of thenselves.

If Islam was European it would be nice and cuddly and tolerant.

Religion is a construct of culture and culture is a construct of race.

But perhaps it is time to heave Christianity aside, not just in the council chamber but throughout Europe.

Odinism, that's what we need!

No more of this inclusive happy clappy rapture nonsense.

Mike said...

race is a construct of ignorance as we all belong to the human race don't we? or can we define race by genetics?

Mike said...

the big nose race, nope, the little willy race, lol, a race with infertile women, now that would fuck things up, hobbits, i don't know you tell me

Gallovidian said...

We all belong to the human species Mike. Within that species there are different races.

Shinar's Basket Case said...

"We all belong to the human species Mike"

speak for yourself. Some of us are actually ivory skinned Sex gods.

Mike said...

so the human race is defunct, a non issue, unimaginable. I believe the is no such thing as a human species perhaps a human being and that reflects on you(singular).

Mike said...

species is indivisable by race. race is a construct defined by belief. think on......

Mike said...

perhaps you are part of a higher species or a sub-species. like a tiger might have a little tiger with no teeth or paws, or a relative big sister with antlers and massive heeeed, lol

christians with a small c and muslims with a BIG SUICIDE BOMB, grow the fuck up, forget race, enjoy culture and don't let religion get in the way of work. because work is the exchange of effort for money unless you are retired or in some vocation in which case, forget tax payers and be the charity basket cases you choose to be. oh yes and thank the maker FFS

Woman on a Raft said...

Wonder if the vicar is paid to lead the prayers, and if so, how much?

I'm not religious but I'm pretty sure I could word-up an opening prayer to the deity of your choice, or none, if you are that way so inclined. Lead it yourself if you just want the script emailed over, or my rates for a personal appearance are very reasonable.

Who are these weedy people that they can't cut-n-paste a prayer from the web?

Captain Haddock said...

"Odinism, that's what we need"!

By the sounds of Councillor Woodward ..

Onanism is nearer the mark ..

Shinar's Basket Case said...

"Onanism is nearer the mark .."

*Snork*

Right bunch of master debaters they are too...

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Mike said...

So a deleted comment is cached, interesting, it follows you can’t take back something once it has been said, or typed which whatever. As per the ‘mass debaters’ comment that sent me into a frenzy, clam down dear, its only the son of god that's at stake, lol

Woodsy42 said...

You are missing the point. Second hand religion is extrememly dangerous. It can lead to bad dreams, delusions of grandeur, pontificating on the morality of your peers, wearing hats and numerous other anti-social behaviours. Think of how this affects the children and you will see how important it is to confine religion to the interior of specially constructed buildings designed to shield the general public from its emanations. We should applaud and support this councellor for his efforts or your children may come home one day and ask why they can't covet the next door ox.

JuliaM said...

"Wish there was a way to get councillors recalled if they do this sort of thing, it's very tedious."

Me too.

"Wouldn't it be good to catch Richard Dawkins at a book signing at ask him to write that inside the cover?"

*chuckle*

"Perhaps he was thinking of Brussels?"

Ouch! Good one... ;)

"But perhaps it is time to heave Christianity aside..."

Church of England seems to be waaaay ahead of you on that one!

JuliaM said...

"Wonder if the vicar is paid to lead the prayers, and if so, how much?"

An 'appearance fee'? Hmmm. Wonder if he has a rider too. ;)

"By the sounds of Councillor Woodward ..

Onanism is nearer the mark .."


LOL!

"Second hand religion is extrememly dangerous."

:D