Two robbers shot dead by police as they attempted to raid a security van were lawfully killed, an inquest jury found today.
Gang leader Mark Nunes, 35, was shot by a police marksman when he ran towards a G4S security guard and pointed a loaded 9mm handgun at his head outside the HSBC bank in Chandler's Ford in September 2007, the jury decided at Winchester Coroner's Court.
His accomplice Andrew Markland, 36, was shot twice by another marksman from the Metropolitan Police's CO19 firearms team when he ran across the road and picked up the gun, the jury of two men and nine women also found.Ahhh, this is the situation that ex-LibDem MP Sandra Gidley was whinging about, wasn’t it?
Speaking just a few hours after the shooting Mrs Gidley said: "I am shocked, along with the vast majority of my constituents, by the news of such violence in sleepy Chandler's Ford. This would appear to be a police operation that went badly wrong. It seems clear the police knew about the planned robbery but questions have to be asked about whether loss of life could have been avoided. The police did a good job in detection but my questions are to seek reassurances and proof that there was no danger to the public."Well, it’s now clear that it didn’t go ‘badly wrong’, isn’t it? They exercised the correct judgement at the time.
Quite unlike your own judgement with your expense claims…
I guess that’s why you lost to the Conservatives…
17 comments:
I've never understood why Secricor-type money guards aren't armed in this country.
By the very nature of the crime. 'Armed Robbery'...the clue is in the name.
Other places they, Sec Men, enjoy a weapons training that far outstrips what the police of those countries get...and that's according to their trainers who are all Police Firearms instructors as a rule.
Hold on a minute,you don't want the police armed but minimum wage untrained security guards can be! My flabber is ghasted!!!
I'm not sure if this an anti-liberal story or a pro-police one.Let me assume the latter just for once.The comments on the local paper were interesting to say the least.
Jaded
"Hold on a minute,you don't want the police armed but minimum wage untrained security guards can be!"
Actually I said that I think the Police should be armed- I don't like the idea but its probably necessary since Blair's obscene gun laws which made the mandatory sentence for possession more than that for killing a copper.
I just told you that elsewhere Sec-Men are certainly not untrained. Infact they pride themselves on being better trained and better shots than the Police. But you're right about them being underpaid. One of the reasons I refused to do money transports was
I wasn't prepared to carry a gun and risk getting shot for about ₤8 a hour.
OK I lumped you in with all the other antis on here when we were debating the tazer tomfoolery.Sorry about that.I assume the trained security guards are in America as they are clearly unharmed here.
In public services the cheapest tender always gets chosen whereas companies sometimes pick quality instead of cheapness.For example the photocopying paper we use I wouldn't wipe my arse on.
We do talk about being armed at work sometimes.Not an exact science but I would say my chums are split 50/50.I personally would accept the training just in case but my borough is so quiet I might not carry a gun on routine patrol.
Jaded
".I assume the trained security guards are in America as they are clearly unharmed here."
No I meant European - German/Austrian/Muesli-Land.
Hell, some of the Swiss guys are trained up to Special Forces standards...especially those guarding banks.
They would be well trained in Switzerland-got to keep all those gold teeth safe haven't they?
Jaded
"They would be well trained in Switzerland-got to keep all those gold teeth safe haven't they?"
Yep and its hard for Gnomes to get bepoke kevlar 3 pieces.
That aside, slowly-very bloody slowly- our continental cousins are beginning to understand that using the police as guards is a bad idea-both economically and morally.
Ex Coppers make the worst security guards,as a rule, and its a nonsense that we still expect the UK Police to be guards. They can't, they aren't trained to do so and its almost diametrically opposed to their job description of 'enforcement'.
Sure there are alot of crossover points but a guard is there to enforce his client's rights -his right not to be robbed- not the law.
Going back to the original post. I get the feeling that this is more about house prices in sleepy Nimby-On-The-Take than a possible mishandled CO19 Op.
For the life of me, and as critical of The Farce as I am, I can't see what the coppers should have done different.
"I'm not sure if this an anti-liberal story or a pro-police one"
Inspector Gadget has Feral and JuliaM has Jaded. There was a time when every village had one.
I'm really hurt by that comment.Fortunately a judge today says I have to have a thick skin and ignore the nasty public who are rude to me.
Jaded
and this result took 4 years to be ratified.....this is a great liberal democracy we live in. Be proud.
"Fortunately a judge today says I have to have a thick skin and ignore the nasty public who are rude to me."
Not a good judgement IMO. Insulting a police man on duty should be classed as ABH and dealt with as such.
Not because the delicate little flowers we call 'policemen' might be made to cry but because they embody the Law and no one should be able to disrespect the law with impunity.
*wonders what will happen to the next person in the dock to call M'Lord a wanker?*
That 'respect' for a policeman, that authority that comes from being The Law embodied is a more important protection for an officer than a cowardly stab vest.
In other countries it is legal to insult the Police as a collective noun, as a body but NOT an individual officer.
ie you can say 'all coppers are arses-with-ears' (a deadly insult in German) but saying 'You, Mr Policeyman, are an arse-with-ears' will get you fined and maybe even locked up.
@ SBC
This was a sound judgement purely as a result of gutter English commonly used by UK police. One only need but briefly scan Gadget, to find it awash with obscenities of maritime proportions describing physically impossible functions. To arrive at any other judgement in consequence of such general knowledge, would be highly injudicious. It has long been an intolerable hypocrisy for police to arrest citizens who used the expressions police themselves have adopted and moulded into common discourse.
Swearing in court is quite another matter since the judiciary do not, to my knowledge at least, use foul language in open proceedings and are not subject to similar accusations of hypocrisy. Respect for police has all but disappeared here and only a fool would contemplate legislation to make respect for them, mandatory. And what you outline as normal in other Countries will always amount to nothing here.
Horses for courses, dear boy. In this case, donkeys for Derbies.
MTG, in all my conversations-as a suspect, arrested felon or as awitness- with Policey men ON DUTY I have rarely heard one of them use any expletive much stronger than 'damn'. Although I grant you that when I talk to my mates on the force privately then yes they swear as much or as little as anyone else.
Even when arresting me using their 'shouty' mode (ie like the Armed Response teams do) there was never any 'get on the fucking ground NOW'.
Never a "PUT DOWN THE FUCKING CIGARETTE AND STEP AWAY FROM THE FUCKING BAR, PERP!"
... I think I did once hear our ,then, local 'booby' say 'Pooh' when he trapped his hand in the panda car door...
*edit "local 'booby' " that was a genuine typo. He PC 3** was a good friend to me and mine and no one was less 'booby' like.
"...and that's according to their trainers who are all Police Firearms instructors as a rule."
Hopefully, not this calibre of police firearms instructor? ;)
"In public services the cheapest tender always gets chosen whereas companies sometimes pick quality instead of cheapness."
Very true! Except with regards to IT, when it's usually way, way overpriced.
"For the life of me, and as critical of The Farce as I am, I can't see what the coppers should have done different."
Apart from track down the parents of the two wastes of skin and do them as well, just to be certain?
"Inspector Gadget has Feral and JuliaM has Jaded. "
I think feral's been blocked from Gadget's pages. As have I, it seems...
"and this result took 4 years to be ratified.."
It's a rather lengthy periods, isn't it? Given it seems to have been on film, I have to wonder just why...
"...but because they embody the Law and no one should be able to disrespect the law with impunity."
I think MTG has the right of it here, but only so far as that goes for police officers in the heat of the moment, or the anonymity afforded by webforums.
"It has long been an intolerable hypocrisy for police to arrest citizens who used the expressions police themselves have adopted and moulded into common discourse."
Well, I rather doubt it IS 'common'. Next time I see a policeman, I'll ask him the time, and find out... ;)
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