When two police officers turned up on his doorstep at 11.20pm, Clive Lindoe feared the worst.His son is 13.
But the father of three was shocked and angry to learn the reason for the late-night visit – an allegation that his youngest son had thrown an apple at another boy.
They even threatened to arrest Charlie, 13, when his father initially refused to let them see him until the morning.He should have called their bluff, then called a solicitor.
The schoolboy was then woken up and taken to the ‘bullying and brutish’ officers, who made him sign what is believed to have been a neighbourhood resolution agreement, used to resolve minor disputes – even though he denied hurling the apple in the first place.What do they mean, 'made him sign'? How? If he denied hurling the apple, surely that's the end of it?
The father is furious, as well he might be:
‘If they were investigating a murder or a serious assault, I could understand the need for coming late at night.By which time, the ‘slight bruise’ would have already disappeared, FFS!
‘But they arrived five days after [the incident] was supposed to have happened.’
Yesterday, the family were visited by a sergeant who is investigating their complaint.It’s highly ‘inappropriate’ that you keep your jobs, but I bet you do….
Essex Police has refused to identify the form Charlie signed because their investigation is ‘ongoing’. A spokesman added: ‘It would be inappropriate to comment any further.’
Shijuro notes that there's more to the story than the 'Mail' have reported (shocker!), but even so, this does not justify their actions.
When was it the job of the police to negotiate 'neighbourhood resolutions'?
20 comments:
Not even unusual story for Essex Police nowadays I'm afraid.I have to live with this bunch of useless doughnut stuffing pension chasers masquerading as 'law enforcement officers'. Think yourselves lucky that you don't!
"When was it the job of the police to negotiate 'neighbourhood resolutions'?"
It's very simple really. When defending yourself from attack... no matter how trivial and at any age at any time...from the playground to pension queue...put you as at much fault and liability for punishment as the perpetrator and awarded the bully instant "victim status". If you got caught, that is.
Before that...the kids would scrap it out between themselves, the teachers would punish a bully or the bully's dad would have got a visit from the other kid's dad. If necessary the mothers would scrap it out.
Police involvement...or not ;)...would only be necessary if someone got very badly hurt which was rare. You knew when to accept fault or back down and behave.
Once again it all comes down that thing called "Personal Responsibility". I keep seeing this pattern.
Seems rather late at night, demanding to see a child at 2320? With arrest of the parent as an alternative?
Police have a choice
1. Take the child out of school
2. Deal with the child in the evening.
Once assigned to evening shifts (after 7pm) then the officers are pushed to make sure it carried out. That means if on the way to the house they get diverted to deal with a fight at the town centre the visit will be delayed 4 hours (that’s how long the paperwork takes with an arrest). So now it is no long 7pm but now it is 11pm, yet they still must make the visit.
Now the question that should be asked is why is response (the 999 team) dealing with this and not say the neighborhood team who work 9 - 5? Why has a limited and precious resource been diverted to deal with this? Bad management perhaps because that’s the only way I can see it.
So Essex senior management would prefer to leave their County without 999 cover to deal with these types of reports than use the team’s that should and could cover them?
It never the PC or Sergeants fault always look upwards.
At the risk of inflaming MTG and English Viking I have to disagree.......! Is this really such a big story? If the police did nothing the parents of the alleged victim would be in paper complaining. And what aggrieved parent contacts the newspaper first? An anti-police one I would guess.
The clue in these stories (generally)is when one of the parents says "he's no angel but..."
Jaded
Perhaps Essex Police need to engage an Ovine-Caprine Triage Officer?
Leaving aside for one minute the delay and the time of day, is the throwing of an apple by a thirteen year old at an eleven year old really a crime and thus a police matter? And is it an affair which requires two officers to be deployed?
It's a story to reinforce the belief that Police go mob-handed after soft targets.
Going to the paper is perfectly acceptable, as adverse press coverage is dreaded by the police and is now just about the only control the public has over them.
You'd really think the police "should" have more important things to do. Why do they get involved in childhood scraps? In my day, the parents of the "assaulted child" would come and knock on your door and sort it out with "offenders" parents. Police shouldn't be asked to deal with this sort of stupidity.
"not say the neighborhood team who work 9 - 5? "
This was my first thought too. I know around where I have the misfortune to live we have a 'Neighbourhood Team' who deal with these sorts of *cough* major crimes.
Infact they generally deal with such incidents a lot better than the 'other' members of the Force.
Sometimes I've personally had reason to wonder if the Neighbourhood Team isn't the very last refuge of the Old Time Copper...as opposed to the rest of the spidey-belt wearing wanna-be ninjas who are too scared to leave the Cop Shop without a Stab Vest and preferably with Armed Response back up!
Many a times I've witnessed/experienced our local Neighbourhood bobbies using the 'clip round ear' approach of policing (of course they didn't actually box anyone's ears...more's the pity) and even, on rare occasions, that mythical beast 'Common Sense'!
So much so infact that a few years back there was a knock at our door and one of the Useless Fruit Of My Loins went to answer it (only took years of parental training to get him up to that level).
He called out to me: "DaaaAAAd the pigs are at the door, shall I let them in?"
My response from down the other end of the house was of course: "Not unless they have a fucking warrant!"
However when I got to the door there stood the Lead PC from the NT (who are mainly PCSO's ). I turned to my kid and explained 'that isn't The Pigs, that's The Police and he's allowed in anytime day or night, you call him 'Sir'.
PS
"He called out to me: "DaaaAAAd the pigs are at the door, shall I let them in?""
I should add that my kid said that in German not English and he would never use the English term 'pig' infront of a policeman...I hope!
When was it the job of the police to negotiate 'neighbourhood resolutions'?
Targets, targets everywhere, and ne'er a plod to think.
You will be tempted to reason with Essex police if you have never previously argued with idiots.
This brigade pull folk down to their level and then beat them with experience.
,,,is the throwing of an apple by a thirteen year old at an eleven year old really a crime and thus a police matter? And is it an affair which requires two officers to be deployed?
The Police cannot ask that question. Such things have already been decided by the intractable National Crime Reporting Standard body.
Two Officers made sense. they probably knew what the Dad was like.
These days Officer shifts often follow 2 earlies, 2 lates, 2 nights, then days off pattern.
Two earlies, child will have been at school. Two lates child will be at home but this is the busiest time of day and so many new jobs are coming in, it usually impossible to deal with an old one. Two nights.....
Couple that with the fact that there is pressure on the Officers to have the job resulted, detected and closed. It was always going to end in tears.
"Not even unusual story for Essex Police nowadays I'm afraid.."
Depressing thought!
"Police involvement...or not ;)...would only be necessary if someone got very badly hurt which was rare."
Indeed. All boundaries and restrictions seem to have been stripped away over the last 30 years.
"It never the PC or Sergeants fault always look upwards."
'Just following orders'..?
"The clue in these stories (generally)is when one of the parents says "he's no angel but...""
One shouldn't judge, but looking at the father's picture...
But still, even so, this is a barmy decicion that only gives the police more bad publicity.
"Perhaps Essex Police need to engage an Ovine-Caprine Triage Officer?"
:D
"Police shouldn't be asked to deal with this sort of stupidity."
Quite. But so many adults are now incapable of sorting out their own problems without recourse to the state.
"Couple that with the fact that there is pressure on the Officers to have the job resulted, detected and closed. It was always going to end in tears."
I can accept the police are in a 'no win situation' if they follow the guidelines blindly.
I don't think this was a job other than for a local bobby. Response are generally incapable of good work for as number of reasons. It's our fault things have got to this kind of pitch and cock-up. This should never be a police matter and clearly only is because there is nowhere else to turn. Bullying is very serious, which we forget until there is a suicide. There should have been resolution in place before police. Somewhere in Essex people are being paid to say things about partnership working. Sack them, there obviously is none.aco
Recently experienced the same although not late at night, but my son is in boarding school and had returned there by the time I got a knock at the door obviously not the same day!! So it will be weeks before the OIC gets to speak to him. As its too much trouble for them to make the 20 minute journey to visit him.
However on the basis of 1 10year old's story the OIC had decided to use his 'new toy' over a 'playground squabble' between 2 10year old's where no injuries were evident to next day.
I have no idea if the alleged indecent took place but it seems weather my sons hit the other boy or not his only option is to sign the agreement or get arrested and interviewed under caution. A distressing experience for anyone never mind a 10year old. And would they take a sample of his DNA as they do these days?
I'm appalled that my son was found guilty before an investigation of any kind and will have to admit his guilt so as not to be arrested. Yet the only evidence to arrest him is the account of the 'victim'
can anyone accuse anyone of anything now and they are then bound to what is much the same as a suspended sentence without trial?
How do I advise my son? should he maintain his innocence if this is the case and go through the horror of being arrested at such a young age or do I teach him to admit to it whatever?
"However on the basis of 1 10year old's story the OIC had decided to use his 'new toy' over a 'playground squabble' between 2 10year old's where no injuries were evident to next day.
I have no idea if the alleged indecent took place but it seems weather my sons hit the other boy or not his only option is to sign the agreement or get arrested and interviewed under caution."
It's difficult, because a family's first instinct will be to sign to make it all go away (so a nice tick in the box for the force!), though being an awkward cuss, I'd simply ensure they knew it'd be more trouble than its worth by striking back first.
A letter of complaint to the force, cc'd to the local paper, and a letter to the governors of the boarding school (also cc'd to the complaints board AND local paper) would be the first salvo.
My instincts say they're bluffing, but my instincts could well be wrong and yes, there's that DNA thing to worry about.
One thing I do know - this is not how anyone wants to see a police force behave, not by a long chalk.
I think I would have told them to come a more appropriate time children need their rest. And five days later to show up that late come on. I think it's time for some new law enforcement or political leaders in your town.
I know this family, I even went to the same school as the boy in question.
Some people say "oh he only threw an apple" but what they wont add on is the previous physical and verbal abuse he dishes out, and how he manipulates other to join him and do his dirty work. He's a right piece of work and one offence from a youth detention center.
I cant even put the rest of my anger into words that his scumbag father has managed to get the general public feeling sorry for the little delinquent.
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