In an Amnesty poll launched today of UK attitudes towards abortion in the most extreme circumstances, we found that most people in England, Scotland and Wales didn’t know or wrongly assumed that the law relating to abortion was the same throughout the whole United Kingdom. When we told the respondents that in fact women and girls in Northern Ireland did not have the same rights and were forced to travel to the rest of the UK and pay for an abortion, the vast majority (76%) said that this situation was “unacceptable”.So, they weren't aware of this awful 'problem' until you told them about it? And then - although these's been no attempt to hide this information - they are OUTRAGED! when told?
Well, frankly, I'd dismiss such opinions as not worth the effort taken to collect them.
International law states that it is for each country to set “reasonable” limits to abortion and it is for those countries to decide what is reasonable (although Amnesty would say that a restriction that posed a risk to the life or long-term health of the woman was not “reasonable”).So...what's the problem,?
But we are concerned when issues such as time limits or changes to who can provide counselling services or “cooling-off periods” or restrictions on the premises where abortion can be performed are so clearly part of a long-term strategy to chip away at access to abortion with the ultimate aim to ban it entirely.Ah. Of course. The long-running War On Teh Wymminz...
Politicians in Westminster and Stormont like to pass the buck when it comes to abortion. Westminster says it’s for Northern Ireland to decide, Stormont says it won’t change the law because that’s not what the people of Northern Ireland want.Maybe it isn't?
However, our poll shows a clear majority in Northern Ireland in favour of access to abortion in the cases of rape (69%), incest (68%) and fatal foetal abnormality (where the foetus has no chance of surviving outside of the womb, 60%).They'll have no problem voting in a party that calls for abortion laws to be overturned then, right?
11 comments:
Oh they do so love their straw 'men' (is that sexist, misogynistic, patriarchal term?).
Guess what proportion of abortions every year in the UK are undertaken for those incidents of a pregnancy caused by rape, incest or a 'known' fatal foetal abnormality? Less than 0.5% of the abortions performed.
The rest? Because it's 'inconvenient' for the woman and she is using it as an alternative to a prophylactic (ie. She was too drunk, forgot, couldn't be bothered to take the 'free' precautions). Then the 'medical rational' of 'harm' to a woman is often (in the vast majority) manipulated by like minded doctors to include 'will cramp her social life'. (At my local unit there are multiple women who have had >5 abortions, and one who has had … 12, at age 29!?! And don't get me started on the clean sterile 'it's just a few cells claims – as a student I was unfortunate enough to see the contents of the buckets, literally, kept in the sluice post procedures. The only difference between many and 'Dr.' Gosnell is that he expected the nurses to use scissors – and was found out).
The hypocrisy of most women on this subject is overwhelming. Take most women in to see what 'actually' occurs and there'd be a run on molotov's and piano wire - I guarantee it.
Able
I understand what you mean, but I hope you'll accept that in the spectrum of women having abortions because they were raped to being drunken whores, there are some women who take this option because they made a mistake.
It happens, and it's ugly and in some cases, quite tragic. We all make mistakes, and it is unfair to visit one on an unwanted child.
Is there a party in NI in favour of abortion? I very much doubt that either the DUP or SF (who make up over half of the NI Assembly) are in favour so I can't see the law over there changing any time soon.
Twenty
Oh I agree, but there's that little thing called a 'morning after pill' (or failing that, adoption by one of the thousands of women desperately trying IVF et al, unsuccessfully, for a child – often treated in beds next to each other, if you can believe that).
So, the lady would not only have to 'make a mistake' but then compound it by denying the possibility (or only recognising/admitting it) for some weeks after.
There 'are' real, legitimate and entirely understandable (and often so heart-breaking that even a fanatic pro-lifer couldn't argue against them) reasons but the vast majority of the hundreds of thousands of abortions (over 198 thousand in 2011) do not fit into those criteria. The vast majority are because they 'adversely affect the mothers mental health', as vague and easily manipulated as that term is.
The fact remains that a significant proportion of women view it as either an in extremis form of prophylaxis (and many as a first choice method – unbelievably). As someone who has (whilst not directly involved in the procedure) nursed many women in such situations – apocryphal as I know my experience is, it is still sufficient for me not to question the demonstrable, repeated, unequivocal data available (here and in other first world countries).
A(n) interesting/relevant point is that 'abortions are available in NI' … for the cited medical reasons. Therefore 'all' those ladies travelling to other areas are doing so for reasons other than their pregnancies are the result of rape/incest or because of a fatal foetal condition.
But what do I know? I'm a man so can have no opinion – patriarchy, misogynism, etc. ;-)
"over 198 thousand in 2011"
and people still think that Global Warming will do for us all as a species.
And as to showing people what that 'clump of cells' actually looks like, forget it. If it isn't actually illegal ('obscene', 'offensive') to do so already then it will be very soon. Years ago -2001 I think- the ProLife Alliance tried to put out a party political broadcast which included some such 'offensive' images and ran foul of the Imprimatur.
Able
Thank you for your considered response.
I agree with all of your points. although I might be a little older than you, when RU-486 wasn't an option.
The question is whether NI should have separate legislation regarding unwanted children or not. As they are living on the charity of England, the answer is no.
In an ideal world, you'd have a safety catch on your cock, to enable you to fire blanks at the flick of a switch. It is one of the most serious failures of science to have not developed the male contraceptive pill, hindered by the rather anal (snork) reaction to the Aids outbreak.
It is right that this particular law differs in NI from the rest of the UK. There is such a deeply held set of convictions in the Province which requires special treatment. Scotland is a nation, Wales is a principality, so does NI as a province not have the right to form it's own laws?
I have a simple attitude towards abortion : It's the mother's choice and only the mother's choice.
No woman kills their unborn child lightly.
Dioclese
So, 'both' a man and a woman have sexual intercourse which results in an unwanted/unexpected pregnancy, but 'only' the woman has any say whether to keep or terminate that pregnancy? Why?
Because of the 'burden' of carrying a child to term for 9 mths (and some very spurious/sensationalised/imagined accounting of the alleged risks to her well being as a consequence of pregnancy – if it was as bad as portrayed we'd be extinct as a species by now)?
Because of the 'lifestyle' and monetary costs? But the woman can unilaterally decide to keep the child and inflict 18 years of financial hardship on the man (and every other single childless man/woman in society by forced taxation required to support her) if she so chooses? And that's aside from any 'rights' the child has.
“No woman kills their unborn child lightly”. Really? You are aware that the overwhelmingly vast majority of child murders are committed, and have always been, … by the mother (or other female relative)? That women lie, cheat, steal, assault, murder and rape (care to check the ongoing prosecution of hundreds of women in the states for rape and/or paedophilia – 48 yr old women forcing 10/11/12 year old boys/girls into sex). That 'domestic violence' is, and has always been I suspect, a 50/50 thing, that verbal/emotional abuse is overwhelmingly perpetrated by women. Whilst domestic abuse which results in (significant) injury is, in the (just) majority, committed by men, abuse which results in death is again overwhelmingly committed by women. All women, just like all men, aren't 'good, honest, …' types – just the majority, thankfully. So that statement is patently, proven as … well, bunkum.
Two, asides if peripherally relevant, points:
I noticed some time ago a ... strange occurrence. Many women, describing themselves, used the relative pronoun 'which' – properly used for 'things' when describing 'their' children (eg. “I am a 30 something woman with two children which I love”). I started watching/listening for it, and it is a very common occurrence. Men? Overwhelmingly use the pronoun 'who'. Does this mean anything? That women see children as … things, property? If they (a proportion) did/do, would that change things?
Second, there is a current diatribe against a (very rich) US politician (a Democrat) who on divorcing his wife (lots of scandal) refused to pay alimony (he pays for the children, she got the house, car etc.) so 'she' has hit the press for 'having' to claim food-stamps. In what world is it right that a woman who patently cannot support either herself or the children gets (automatic) custody? Is it right to terminate a pregnancy because 'she' cannot/does not wish to support a child, when 'he' can/may wish to?
Not argumentative, just wondering on your opinions on these … inconsistencies. The proble, as I se it, is that both men and women conceiving a child have rights and responsibilities - unfortunately the women get the all rights, the men all the responsibilities.
That's Amnesty, yes? The lot who tried to get people out of prison who were there for their political beliefs? WTF are they doing going on about abortion law?
"The rest? Because it's 'inconvenient' for the woman and she is using it as an alternative to a prophylactic..."
Spot on!
"...there are some women who take this option because they made a mistake."
Yes, there are - 0.5% of them. So I hold my nose and agree with Hilary Clinton here.
Safe, legal and RARE.
"Is there a party in NI in favour of abortion?"
I doubt I'll see one in my lifetime!
"No woman kills their unborn child lightly."
Sorry, but as Able points out, they do. And they are often repeat offenders!
"WTF are they doing going on about abortion law?"
A finer example of 'mission creep' I've yet to see...
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