Tuesday 17 September 2013

CiF Finds Patience Has Run Out With Their Parade Of Baby Seals…

Shaun Hall’s article being (briefly) opened to comments, and then closed again barely about an hour later. Hardly surprising, too.
If Mark had been killed by anyone other than a police officer we would be much further down the road by now of knowing what happened.
The chances of Mark being killed ‘by anyone other than a police officer’ were greater than for the rest of us, weren't they, Shaun? Care to explain to the readers why?
Instead of being kept informed about the investigation we have had to deal with hostility and abuse from members of the public because of the way the shooting was initially reported in the media and the subsequent riots.
I’d have thought that ‘hostility and abuse’ was only to be expected as a result of the sort of family background you have when you’re a nephew of ex-Manchester gangland boss Desmond Noonan, and your cousin is stabbed to death in the street. What’s that old saying? Ah, yes. Lie down with dogs…
The Metropolitan police say they are making London safer but they didn't make it safer for Mark
They did make it a lot safer for the person (or people) he was on his way to see with his newly-purchased illegal firearm, didn't they?
We are going into this inquest hoping that at last we will find out the truth about what happened to Mark, that those responsible will be held to account, and that what happened to Mark will not happen to anyone else in the future.
I hope it happens to all the Marks out there.

Before they happen to someone else, and someone who doesn't deserve it gets caught in the crossfire...


staybryte said...

All comments removed!? Never seen that before.

Anonymous said...

Shaun Hall = Utter Cnut!

Lynne at Counting Cats said...

Sometimes even the CiFalitics realise there are some turds you just can't polish even when they come gold plated.

MTG said...

I must go some way with you on this, Julia. Shaun Hall is (as sure as shooting) guilty of being a self confessed black person in possession of baseless optimism.

You are entitled to accept without question, the police version of Mr Duggan's 'gunfight' with a weapon which was not found on him, being one which he was alleged to have purchased only a few minutes prior to the killing. Please be aware of the very slippery nature of this Judge Dredd road, my dear.

The unequivocal racist invective present in "I hope it happens to all the Marks out there" is a mob-chant which civilised folk would prefer to dissociate themselves. But you are welcome to the residuum of solace distilled from comments supplied by the usual plod suspects.

Twenty_Rothmans said...

Any decent person might rejoice and celebrate the death of Mark Duggan.

These twisted congenital idiots breed like flies, have no talent outside that of crime, and belong in labour camps. I am not referring only to East London's community.

It is our fault - we repopulated this nation by housing new immigrants from impoverished and lawless societies alongside the most vile examples of our indigenous society. That was always going to work out well.

Sow the wind, and all that.

Lynne at Counting Cats said...

MTG - You wouldn't be trying to yell raaaacist! in order to close down criticism of the saintly Mark Duggan by any chance? You are, after all, the only one to invoke skin colour.

Ian Hills said...

The gun was hidden in Duggan's sock, wan't it?

blueknight said...

'We are going into this inquest hoping that at last we will find out the truth about what happened to Mark,'
Let me hazard a guess.
- "Armed Police" - "Stop"- Bang- bang - The End

Anonymous said...

Melvin,urgently call 0207 230 1212 and ask to be put through to the Mark Duggan enquiry team.You were obviously an eye-witness to this incident and your evidence will be crucial.Don't write your statement in green ink though as that will be off-putting.

MTG said...

It matters not a jot to me, but your posthumous bestowal of saintly virtues misses the point completely, Lynne.

Turn a blind eye to the elimination of targets of which you approve and you place you and yours on somebody's list. You may be tempted to dismiss the notion of Death Squads operating here, because nobody in this Country dies from premeditated Police State violence.

Lynne at Counting Cats said...

Armed police shoot armed criminals. What a shocker. Yet hundreds die of premeditated and opportunistic criminal violence from street gang death squads. I don't hear you emoting for their victims, MTG.

Keep taking the dried frog pills. I recommend you up the dose though.

Anonymous said...

MTG....what mental world do you inhabit. GET OUT MORE!

Lynne at Counting Cats said...

Well clearly I don't share your world which suits me just fine and dandy. Living in Ad-hom land as you do clearly handicaps your ability to be taken seriously.

Gnostic said...

For the benefit of the comments, I committed my previous post to electrons before I realised the post I was replying to wasn't from MTG.

Apologies to anonymous. :0)

John Pickworth said...

I have no instinctive sympathy for Mark Duggan, for his family or with his supporters. He was clearly a thug with zero regard for his victims or the community he lived in. His family - like Stephen Lawrence's - believe the truth is had by waving placards outside the police station, complaining to the IPCC and running to the media... all before the body is cold. Meanwhile his supporters were massaging their grief by helping themselves to a pair of size 8 Nike trainers, and all the other sizes on the shelf for the grief stricken folk on eBay.

But... Shaun Hall does raise some valid questions.

Once again, we're left with the impression of the police using lethal force gung-ho style. Not only that, but just like the running Brazilian leaping Stockwell Tube Station ticket barriers while wearing a bomb belt and puffer jacket (none of which were true) the police in this case seem also somewhat 'confused' after the fact about whether Duggan was armed or not. Fair enough if a mistake was made at the crucial moment, but to still be unsure by that evening's news? If they cannot determine the sequence of events with some confidence in the following hours/days why should we trust their ability to assess a situation in the moments before? Are we simply putting guns into the wrong hands?

And sure, I get that it's a dangerous world out there, as the Dale Cregan case highlights all too well - coincidentally, a year ago today. But these shooting incidents aren't simply the results of the police being 'cautious' in dangerous situations but quite evidently the opposite.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't? A statement that gives an impression of 50/50 except that it's rarely, if ever, a matter of damning the police for not opening fire, not tazering a suspect or not battering someone!

MTG said...

A word to the wise will no longer suffice on this blog and it falls to JP's customary insight and eloquence to expound and make it as plain as plod. However I fear he indulges the torch and pitchfork mob, too much.

@ Lynne
FYI I was never taught plebeian Latin, quaint as your version may be.

Ian Hills said...


Remember that unarmed (unlike Duggan) white bloke who was shot by the police? Thought not.


Anonymous said...

Oh careful everyone-if we keep daring to disagree with Melvins pronouncements from on high then he might be flouncing off again from here. How would we cope without the sneering and patronising posts he favours us with?

OraEtLabora said...

To be fair, Mr Pickworth, when one considers the number of police 'operations in which firearms were authorised' or 'involving armed response vehicles', their mistakes are actually rare. The Stockwell shooting occurred in 2005 but while from 2005/6 to 2011/12 there were 113,211 operations in England & Wales in which firearms were authorised, eight years later Stockwell remains one of their most prominent mistakes. (Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/211845/HO_-_Police_Firearms_stats_Commons_-_2013_7_11__3_.pdf)

A few examples of armed police non-lethality:

'The six men were arrested after taking computer equipment ... They had entered the premises on 31 January with semi-automatic weapons and held 10 members of staff at gunpoint ... But police had been given a tip-off about the robbery, and members of the Met's Central Task Force (West) and SO19, the specialist firearms unit, moved in, disabling the truck's tyres.' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3945789.stm)

'A former security guard who went on a shooting rampage across west London has been given nine life sentences. ... He was eventually cornered by crack marksmen from Scotland Yard's SO19 unit at his ground floor flat in Feltham, where he held several people hostage.' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/697378.stm)

'A man emerged from a property and threw a petrol bomb at officers, police said. ... A 43-year-old man was later arrested after armed police surrounded a house.' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-19175180)

'A man has been detained by police after armed officers surrounded a taxi on a busy North Lanarkshire road. ... He is accused of failing to comply with his bail conditions. He was originally arrested on 28 March in connection with a series of offences including kidnap, blackmail, firearm possession and aggravated burglary.' (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-19112994)

Another example of the restraint and discipline of armed police was when the last PIRA terrorist was shot dead in London in 1996; in the same operation two other terrorists were arrested. Despite the existence of two very (and regrettably, IMO) alive terrorists taken into custody, the boyos and their fanbois still squeal about 'murder' and 'shoot-to-kill'. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/648179.stm)

Lynne at Counting Cats said...

MTG, I appears you weren't taught how to construct and deliver a critical argument either.

Anonymous said...

Ora-excellent links but you are wasting your time on here. Posters will shout about the extremely rare mistakes-like Stockwell-and assume it happens every day.Perfection is only expected in policing,not nursing,plumbing,journalism etc etc.

JuliaM said...

"All comments removed!? "

I think it got up to about 150 before their nerve broke!

"The unequivocal racist invective present in "I hope it happens to all the Marks out there"..."

You misunderstand, Melvin. I don't care what colour they are.

I'm as happy to see the white/brown/yellow crims gunned down & left to die in the gytter as the black ones.

"The gun was hidden in Duggan's sock, wan't it?"

From the evidence so far, it seems not - it was wrapped in a sock as a forensic countermeasure.

"Armed police shoot armed criminals. What a shocker. "


JuliaM said...

"But... Shaun Hall does raise some valid questions.

Once again, we're left with the impression of the police using lethal force gung-ho style."

Yes, but unlike the unfortunate De Menezes, they had identified their target. This wasn't mistaken identity..

As for the confusion, well., just look at recent US events.

One shooter, two, three? Still on the loose, or dead? Is it this chap the police have identified? Whoops, nope!

Only to be expected now.

"Despite the existence of two very (and regrettably, IMO) alive terrorists taken into custody, the boyos and their fanbois still squeal about 'murder' and 'shoot-to-kill'. "

It's what they do..